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I don't agree with everything you've said, but I agree with the core idea: that most of the people on the right (maybe not most of the people at the protests, b
by throwaway345235 6y ago
I don't agree with everything you've said, but I agree with the core idea: that most of the people on the right (maybe not most of the people at the protests, but surely some) are misguided, and not fundamentally evil.
They fundamentally want the same things as the rest of us: peace, freedom, prosperity, etc. Most of them are not racists (even if they end up on the same half of the political spectrum as the racists). They do not desire tyranny, they think they're fighting it.
And finally, there's a fundamental willing-ignorance on the left when it comes to actually understanding these people. Even if you think they need to be stopped - heck, even if you think they are fundamentally evil - you have to be willing to look at where they're coming from, and what's motivating them, if you want to be able to deal with the situation in any remotely effective way. And yet there's this extreme hostility to the very idea that these people could ever be understood as anything more than demons with pitchforks and pointy tails.
They've been pushed and warped by fearful emotions, and economic hardship, and incendiary rhetoric and misinformation (some of which comes from sources that definitely know exactly what they're doing and are not simply misguided). And there's a debate to be had as to how many and to what degree they can be walked back from the brink of extremism at this point. But at the bottom of it all, they are people. And we will never make progress - whether you see progress as unity or simply as the disarming of a movement - until we start trying to understand.
- camjohnson26 6y agoIt seems like some on the left think that listening to offensive ideas is the same as endorsing them. People in general are good at pointing out the flaws in others while ignoring the same thing in themselves.
- throwaway345235 6y agoThere's endorsing ideas, there's considering ideas, and I would add a third tier: sympathizing with a person's legitimately-felt experiences, despite whatever ideas may have grown on top of them
- joaomacp 6y agoGerman people in WW1 and WW2 also thought they were doing the right thing by invading other European countries. I guess they were "misguided", as you say. These people were well-understood by government, who listened to their imperialist and racist demands. Well, the rest of Europe defended themselves through alliances and coordinated military planning, and the USA did their job to bomb the authoritarian regime back to their place. Today's "misguided" Trump extremists are part of a very big group of Trump supporters, who might very well turn the USA into a less-globalist, more authoritarian regime. Perhaps imperialist. In this case, the best for the world would be to quickly disable US military power, ideally with precise nuclear strikes. Nobody in this scenario is "fundamentally evil". But that doesn't mean we can solve all conflicts by "understanding these people". This is about which side / ideology has the most power. Power is what really matters. The USA is seen as the good guys today because they were powerful in WW2. If Germany had gotten their way, they would be the good guys, and USA the evil ones.
- ridaj 6y agoEveryone thinks they're the good guy. Even the guy breaking into Congress with weapons and zip ties. Even Sarah Palin claiming this is all an antifa setup to make Trumpists look bad. I'll go further (Edit: is this what's causing the downvotes? Prove me wrong!): even the ISIS henchman slicing heads off, even the suicide bomber walking into a crowded market to blow themselves up, they all think they're the good guy and have (from their pov) great reasons that one should try to understand. And just because you understand their point of view doesn't mean you have to stick to reasonable discussion when dealing with them. Some things demand action.
- eggsmediumrare 6y agoUncomfortable, but true. Very few people wake up and seek to do evil.
- throwaway345235 6y agoa) Not everyone thinks they're the good guy; some genuinely don't care. But yes, probably all of the people you mention do think that. b) Nobody said that understanding, or even compassion, is mutually exclusive with action. I can seek to understand why the goat-herder was pushed to extremism at a systematic level (which could inform policy changes that mitigate the problem at the source), and even feel compassion for that original hardship, without condoning his later actions. I can even do so while supporting the use of force to stop him. These are all separate questions.