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> how they collect money without actually promising to give it to people that they claim to act opn behalf of This has not been the case for a long time. Any

> how they collect money without actually promising to give it to people that they claim to act opn behalf of This has not been the case for a long time. Any effective solution in this space is going to be controversial. Brave is far from perfect, but it is much better than allowing Apple or Google to control your browser and doesn't require any tech expertise to use. Those companies generally don't apologize or revert their scummy practices.

freewilly1040 6y ago
It seems Brave is often combatting some bad pattern on the web by replacing it with something worse. The latest affiliate link controversy was from 2020 [1] Weird ad browser notifications is not that old [2] Probably others. Happy to be wrong, I haven't researched it much, but what exactly is the case that they have a good track record of any significant length? [1] https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/8/21283769/brave-browser-affiliate-links-crypto-privacy-ceo-apology https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/8/21283769/brave-browser-aff... [2] https://community.brave.com/t/turning-off-brave-notifications/88620 https://community.brave.com/t/turning-off-brave-notification...
- matthewrobertso 6y ago
  [1] is the exact same link linked to by OP and is not convincingly an issue [2] is about an opt-in system that is easily disabled if accidentally opted into
- john-shaffer 6y ago
  You have to explicitly find and enable the ad notifications. It can actually be a bit of a PITA to enable. It's not even supported on my phone. The purpose is if you want to support websites, but don't want to spend money. The ad revenue goes in a wallet, and you decide who to disburse it to (they do have to be registered as a Creator -- Brave's system is subject to KYC laws). The revenue is small and not worth the notifications, so transferring funds to your wallet is generally a much better option. That thread looks like someone had a device with ads explicitly enabled. Perhaps someone else set it up, or he just forgot about it. That happens all the time with software. The case is that most of the bad press is inaccurate and overblown, and Brave has changed course when needed. Their track record is imperfect, but far better than the mainstream alternatives. I don't have sources other than that I've been using Brave as my primary browser on all devices.
- jonathansampson 6y ago
  The affiliate link "controversy" didn't impact user privacy or security in any way. Brave offered a pre-search affiliate option for some keywords before the use navigated. Our mistake was doing this for fully-qualified domains too. Read https://brave.com/referral-codes-in-suggested-sites/ https://brave.com/referral-codes-in-suggested-sites/ for more details, including screenshots. Regarding your second concern about ad notifications, these are Brave Ads. They're opt-in. And they're built on privacy and anonymity. See https://brave.com/rewards https://brave.com/rewards for more. A quick summary: users who opt-in to Brave Ads receive a regional catalog of ads. Their browser, locally on their device, studies the catalog for relevant items. When an ad can be shown (users determine frequency), a notification is displayed. At this time, 70% of the associated revenue is directed towards the user. Brave Rewards is a way for users to support content creators on the Web without having to sign up for services, hand over personal information, or dig into their own pocket. It's a way to passively translate your attention into real, substantive support for the sites you visit.
jonathansampson 6y ago
Some clarification here. Back in 2018, Brave gave tokens from our own UGP (User Growth Pool) to users. These tokens could then be directed to websites, YouTube channels, and more. If the intended recipient wasn't verified, the tokens would go into a settlement wallet. But note, the tokens people were sending were almost entirely those which they first received from Brave (it was not yet possible to earn rewards at that time). So users were getting tokens from Brave, then earmarking those tokens for content creators. More details at https://brave.com/rewards-update/ https://brave.com/rewards-update/
- songshuu 6y ago
  Maybe add the payout total to your transparency page if people have doubts?
  - jonathansampson 6y ago
    Payout totals are coming soon to that page; I've been working with our team to establish those APIs so that the build-script for that page can pull in that information
tristan957 6y ago
Google controls Chromium; therefore Google controls Brave.
- tristan957 6y ago
  This was overly harsh, but Google has a lot of sway over the direction of the Chromium project which is unfortunate. Sampson from Brave also told me that they have yet to not have a patch accepted by Google. Who knows what the future holds regarding the direction of the Chromium project.
  - jonathansampson 6y ago
    I believe we have had patches accepted by Google. But the idea that Google controls Brave because Google controls Chromium is not exactly right, IMHO. There are a lot of contributors to Chromium, from various companies. And there are a lot of projects that don't contribute to Chrome (or haven't been successful in doing so), but do patch. Brave patches Chromium (as does Microsoft). You can read more about how we deviate from the project here: https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/wiki/Deviations-from-Chromium-(features-we-disable-or-remove) https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/wiki/Deviations-from-...

freewilly1040 6y ago

It seems Brave is often combatting some bad pattern on the web by replacing it with something worse. The latest affiliate link controversy was from 2020 [1] Weird ad browser notifications is not that old [2] Probably others. Happy to be wrong, I haven't researched it much, but what exactly is the case that they have a good track record of any significant length? [1] https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/8/21283769/brave-browser-affiliate-links-crypto-privacy-ceo-apology https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/8/21283769/brave-browser-aff... [2] https://community.brave.com/t/turning-off-brave-notifications/88620 https://community.brave.com/t/turning-off-brave-notification...

matthewrobertso 6y ago
[1] is the exact same link linked to by OP and is not convincingly an issue [2] is about an opt-in system that is easily disabled if accidentally opted into
john-shaffer 6y ago
You have to explicitly find and enable the ad notifications. It can actually be a bit of a PITA to enable. It's not even supported on my phone. The purpose is if you want to support websites, but don't want to spend money. The ad revenue goes in a wallet, and you decide who to disburse it to (they do have to be registered as a Creator -- Brave's system is subject to KYC laws). The revenue is small and not worth the notifications, so transferring funds to your wallet is generally a much better option. That thread looks like someone had a device with ads explicitly enabled. Perhaps someone else set it up, or he just forgot about it. That happens all the time with software. The case is that most of the bad press is inaccurate and overblown, and Brave has changed course when needed. Their track record is imperfect, but far better than the mainstream alternatives. I don't have sources other than that I've been using Brave as my primary browser on all devices.
jonathansampson 6y ago
The affiliate link "controversy" didn't impact user privacy or security in any way. Brave offered a pre-search affiliate option for some keywords before the use navigated. Our mistake was doing this for fully-qualified domains too. Read https://brave.com/referral-codes-in-suggested-sites/ https://brave.com/referral-codes-in-suggested-sites/ for more details, including screenshots. Regarding your second concern about ad notifications, these are Brave Ads. They're opt-in. And they're built on privacy and anonymity. See https://brave.com/rewards https://brave.com/rewards for more. A quick summary: users who opt-in to Brave Ads receive a regional catalog of ads. Their browser, locally on their device, studies the catalog for relevant items. When an ad can be shown (users determine frequency), a notification is displayed. At this time, 70% of the associated revenue is directed towards the user. Brave Rewards is a way for users to support content creators on the Web without having to sign up for services, hand over personal information, or dig into their own pocket. It's a way to passively translate your attention into real, substantive support for the sites you visit.

jonathansampson 6y ago

Some clarification here. Back in 2018, Brave gave tokens from our own UGP (User Growth Pool) to users. These tokens could then be directed to websites, YouTube channels, and more. If the intended recipient wasn't verified, the tokens would go into a settlement wallet. But note, the tokens people were sending were almost entirely those which they first received from Brave (it was not yet possible to earn rewards at that time). So users were getting tokens from Brave, then earmarking those tokens for content creators. More details at https://brave.com/rewards-update/ https://brave.com/rewards-update/

songshuu 6y ago
Maybe add the payout total to your transparency page if people have doubts?
- jonathansampson 6y ago
  Payout totals are coming soon to that page; I've been working with our team to establish those APIs so that the build-script for that page can pull in that information

tristan957 6y ago

Google controls Chromium; therefore Google controls Brave.

tristan957 6y ago
This was overly harsh, but Google has a lot of sway over the direction of the Chromium project which is unfortunate. Sampson from Brave also told me that they have yet to not have a patch accepted by Google. Who knows what the future holds regarding the direction of the Chromium project.
- jonathansampson 6y ago
  I believe we have had patches accepted by Google. But the idea that Google controls Brave because Google controls Chromium is not exactly right, IMHO. There are a lot of contributors to Chromium, from various companies. And there are a lot of projects that don't contribute to Chrome (or haven't been successful in doing so), but do patch. Brave patches Chromium (as does Microsoft). You can read more about how we deviate from the project here: https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/wiki/Deviations-from-Chromium-(features-we-disable-or-remove) https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/wiki/Deviations-from-...