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Currently when you don't accept ticket, no penalty is yet applied, and police needs to file court case against you. Proposed changes make it that ticket can't b

Currently when you don't accept ticket, no penalty is yet applied, and police needs to file court case against you. Proposed changes make it that ticket can't be refused and penalty is always applied, but it can be afterwards appealed to the court. This is less favorable as it shifts court process burden from police (they need to prove you are guilty in the first place) to you (you are appealing already applied penalty).

the-dude 6y ago
Has been like this for 'overtredingen' ( minor offences like jaywalking, speeding, running red lights ) in NL for decades. Wet Mulder for those interested.
- garaetjjte 6y ago
  Yes, this proposal taken alone might seem benign, but people are riled up about this because context matter: many of the pandemic restrictions are unlawful, because they are either introduced in decrees issued by prime minister instead of laws passed in parliament, or infringe on freedoms guaranteed in constitution without introducing state of emergency. As such, many courts are throwing out cases brought by police about violating pandemic restrictions. Proceeding law changes about refusing tickets now, just feels like blatantly like: "Oh, they are not accepting tickets based on unlawful regulations? Let's make it harder to refuse ticket!"
  - the-dude 6y ago
    I understand the change is unwelcome. For us an appeal is just a letter to the public attorney(?), which will either result in them dropping it, or a case, all of which you can do yourself.
    - kubanczyk 6y ago
      Do people in Holland protest when their government tries to shift some bureaucratic burden to the citizens, when it was previously on the professionals paid by the citizens' money? Well, Polish people seemingly do mind. I got a ticket, I'm sure I'm innocent: - old way: police "organizes" the court appointment, I wait - new way: I "organize" the court appointment, police waits The taxes don't change.
      - the-dude 6y ago
        No, this was not protested IIRC, as it seems appropriate for speeding-tickets, running red lights, biking without light etc. Or Corona-measures for that matter ( which went through parliament ). edit: Demeanors? is the word I was looking for.
        kubanczyk 6y ago
        misdemeanors :)
jdsully 6y ago
The new process seems equivalent to Canada and the United States. I agree its less favourable though.

the-dude 6y ago

Has been like this for 'overtredingen' ( minor offences like jaywalking, speeding, running red lights ) in NL for decades. Wet Mulder for those interested.

garaetjjte 6y ago
Yes, this proposal taken alone might seem benign, but people are riled up about this because context matter: many of the pandemic restrictions are unlawful, because they are either introduced in decrees issued by prime minister instead of laws passed in parliament, or infringe on freedoms guaranteed in constitution without introducing state of emergency. As such, many courts are throwing out cases brought by police about violating pandemic restrictions. Proceeding law changes about refusing tickets now, just feels like blatantly like: "Oh, they are not accepting tickets based on unlawful regulations? Let's make it harder to refuse ticket!"
- the-dude 6y ago
  I understand the change is unwelcome. For us an appeal is just a letter to the public attorney(?), which will either result in them dropping it, or a case, all of which you can do yourself.
  - kubanczyk 6y ago
    Do people in Holland protest when their government tries to shift some bureaucratic burden to the citizens, when it was previously on the professionals paid by the citizens' money? Well, Polish people seemingly do mind. I got a ticket, I'm sure I'm innocent: - old way: police "organizes" the court appointment, I wait - new way: I "organize" the court appointment, police waits The taxes don't change.
    - the-dude 6y ago
      No, this was not protested IIRC, as it seems appropriate for speeding-tickets, running red lights, biking without light etc. Or Corona-measures for that matter ( which went through parliament ). edit: Demeanors? is the word I was looking for.
      - kubanczyk 6y ago
        misdemeanors :)

jdsully 6y ago

The new process seems equivalent to Canada and the United States. I agree its less favourable though.