5 ms·

Bait-and-switch topic in the opening paragraph. Insists that what people ask for, e2e chat, isn’t what they actually want or should want.

by mcint 6y ago

pampa 6y ago
And he is right. If you want e2e use signal, threema, or OTR/OMEMO. The majority of telegram users want convenient messaging, group chats, news channels and voice group calls. Think slack with a fast native app.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- solstice 6y ago
  The only thing missing from signal among the things you listed is news, no?
- rhn_mk1 6y ago
  Does wanting any of this automatically mean wanting e2e is wrong or invalid?
  - alwaysdoit 6y ago
    No, but it's automatically the right tradeoff for everyone. Security measures are always a tradeoff between convenience and security. Not everyone's tradeoffs work out evenly. Sometimes backups are a more important risk to mitigate than government surveillance.
    - rhn_mk1 6y ago
      > it's automatically the right tradeoff for everyone That can be only true if there is no tradeoff. A tradeoff by definition is a situation where the optimum depends on individual preferences.
- scubbo 6y ago
  > news channels I love getting glimpses of how other people use certain apps. I can't imagine _wanting_ news in my messaging app - that's what my news app is for! Very valuable reminder that our own perspective is not always widespread.
  - t-writescode 6y ago
    I mostly see the news feed tool used for art.
  - rajinikantham 6y ago
    If you're interested in these, you should take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WeChat#Features https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WeChat#Features !
    - jtsiskin 6y ago
      Wow that’s... everything?
  - ffpip 6y ago
    Even I hated those things in my messenger app. Until this happened https://instantview.telegram.org/ https://instantview.telegram.org/ Instant View is so fast (and private) i'm never reading articles any other way.
tomp 6y ago
no, it says that what people ask for, e2e chat, isn't what people get (because of unencrypted cloud backups).
- mcint 6y ago
  fair, especially of the opening sections mentioning backups. It is a marketing piece, and I bristle at it raising issues I like to take seriously, e2e you can't misuse, and moving the goalposts to tout its more limited capabilities and defaults: pair-only(?) secret chats, and not on by default. Telegram's cryptography and theater of justifications have been suspect from the start, so I read any advice coming from them about security with two raised eyebrows. See also: The Most Backdoor-Looking Bug [Filippo's] Ever Seen https://buttondown.email/cryptography-dispatches/archive/cryptography-dispatches-the-most-backdoor-looking/ https://buttondown.email/cryptography-dispatches/archive/cry...

Bait-and-switch topic in the opening paragraph. Insists that what people ask for, e2e chat, isn’t what they actually want or should want.

by mcint 6y ago

Bait-and-switch topic in the opening paragraph. Insists that what people ask for, e2e chat, isn’t what they actually want or should want.

pampa 6y ago

And he is right. If you want e2e use signal, threema, or OTR/OMEMO. The majority of telegram users want convenient messaging, group chats, news channels and voice group calls. Think slack with a fast native app.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
solstice 6y ago
The only thing missing from signal among the things you listed is news, no?
rhn_mk1 6y ago
Does wanting any of this automatically mean wanting e2e is wrong or invalid?
- alwaysdoit 6y ago
  No, but it's automatically the right tradeoff for everyone. Security measures are always a tradeoff between convenience and security. Not everyone's tradeoffs work out evenly. Sometimes backups are a more important risk to mitigate than government surveillance.
  - rhn_mk1 6y ago
    > it's automatically the right tradeoff for everyone That can be only true if there is no tradeoff. A tradeoff by definition is a situation where the optimum depends on individual preferences.
scubbo 6y ago
> news channels I love getting glimpses of how other people use certain apps. I can't imagine _wanting_ news in my messaging app - that's what my news app is for! Very valuable reminder that our own perspective is not always widespread.
- t-writescode 6y ago
  I mostly see the news feed tool used for art.
- rajinikantham 6y ago
  If you're interested in these, you should take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WeChat#Features https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WeChat#Features !
  - jtsiskin 6y ago
    Wow that’s... everything?
- ffpip 6y ago
  Even I hated those things in my messenger app. Until this happened https://instantview.telegram.org/ https://instantview.telegram.org/ Instant View is so fast (and private) i'm never reading articles any other way.

tomp 6y ago

no, it says that what people ask for, e2e chat, isn't what people get (because of unencrypted cloud backups).

mcint 6y ago
fair, especially of the opening sections mentioning backups. It is a marketing piece, and I bristle at it raising issues I like to take seriously, e2e you can't misuse, and moving the goalposts to tout its more limited capabilities and defaults: pair-only(?) secret chats, and not on by default. Telegram's cryptography and theater of justifications have been suspect from the start, so I read any advice coming from them about security with two raised eyebrows. See also: The Most Backdoor-Looking Bug [Filippo's] Ever Seen https://buttondown.email/cryptography-dispatches/archive/cryptography-dispatches-the-most-backdoor-looking/ https://buttondown.email/cryptography-dispatches/archive/cry...