7 ms·

It's a tragedy of the commons situation with gamer enthusiasts acting against their own best interest. If people can't delay gratification for something as inc

by jgust 6y ago

It's a tragedy of the commons situation with gamer enthusiasts acting against their own best interest. If people can't delay gratification for something as inconsequential as "non-broken video games", I don't see how any personal responsibility campaign has any chance of working for things impacting society at large such as climate change, overfishing, public health, etc.

falcolas 6y ago
This isn't on the players. That's very much in the same line as blaming someone driving their car for the Gulf Oil Spill. This is 100% on CDPR management. It's their job to set the right deadlines, to manage expectation and hype. They failed, and should be held accountable for that failure. EDIT: Yes, downvote this. Support CDPR's management and their shitty practices with their employees and their lying to players and investors. I'm sure you'll love the games that come about as a result.
- munk-a 6y ago
  I think there were some really big marketing mistakes but most of the backlash on CP2077 seems to be over the insane levels of hype. I had pre-ordered this game a long time ago and it was genuinely fun on release, there are some bugged quests and I don't have a card capable of rendering ridiculously good graphics but it's playable and fun. From what I've heard the PS release is absolutely worth getting mad over - it's likely that CDPR should have just given up on even attempting a PS release given how poor the performance is but it probably needs some serious investigation to see what pressure Sony was putting on them to make sure it was available.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Sodman 6y ago
I don't think it's fair to blame this on gamers. With all of the hyperbole over various games being "broken", most people that are hyped about a specific game are just going to buy it and see for themselves. Unless it's literally unplayable (as may actually have been the case here), most people won't refund it. This has been going on for years and years, it's just getting worse over time. It's always some variant of this conversation at $GAMEDEV_STUDIO: Focus group feedback: Our test groups are noticing 10% of players are running into this bug/issue. It's frustrating them, but there are workarounds. Management: All of our marketing materials target release date XX/XX/XXXX. If we try to fix this bug we'll have to push the release... How many people will _not_ buy the game because of this bug? Focus group feedback: Nobody that would have otherwise bought this game would decide not to buy it over this issue. Management: So we ship as planned, and fix the bugs in a patch. Over time studios realized that you can get away with much bigger bugs affecting much larger portions of players. Ship sooner, start recognizing revenue, and push post-launch patches to fix the "really bad bugs". It's shocking how bad the quality has to get before it starts making headlines.
- jgust 6y ago
  > I don't think it's fair to blame this on gamers That's sort of what I'm alluding to. Personal responsibility doesn't work when you need collective action, so something else needs to step in to fix this. Reminding gamers to not pre-order is pointless.
- ethbr0 6y ago
  > Management: So we ship as planned, and fix the bugs in a patch. What's curious, and I assume therefore legally-reasoned, is the consistent lack of preparation for blow-back by companies. Some part of CD Projekt Red knew the game was broken on older consoles. It feels like the only real solution to this is to have legal QA documents, signed off on by QA (as factual) and executive leadership (as read and understood). If there's a magically missing set of older console tests, someone in leadership goes to jail. If leadership publicly misrepresents the stability of the game despite knowing about substantial defects from QA reports, someone goes to jail. Who cares about video games, but this is indicative of a broader social problem allowing executives to feign ignorance and create systems that deflect blame downward. Either you're running the company or not. And if you are... then the legal ramifications should ultimately land at your feet.
  - nmfisher 6y ago
    Are you honestly suggesting people go to jail for broken videogames?
    - ethbr0 6y ago
      Yes. It's a USD$150b+ industry.
- cheschire 6y ago
  I waited for the reviews. When they were over 90% I pulled the trigger. Now I realize I purchased a game that was reviewed on what it will eventually become a la No Man's Sky, not what it was on the day of review. Sure, the crashing didn't affect me, my configuration was more or less normal I guess. Instead what I got was a hollow game that has a lot of hooks ready for eventual expansion sometime in future patches. That didn't deserve the 91% it had when I first bought the game. I don't blame fellow gamers. I blame the reviewers.
rootlocus 6y ago
> If people can't delay gratification for something as inconsequential as "non-broken video games" This doesn't make sense. The game was announced 8 years ago, and it was delayed 8 months. The company said the product was ready and they published a product that was not ready. I've delayed my gratification 8 years for it.
- jgust 6y ago
  The quote is referring to the concept of pre-ordering a game.

by jgust 6y ago

falcolas 6y ago

This isn't on the players. That's very much in the same line as blaming someone driving their car for the Gulf Oil Spill. This is 100% on CDPR management. It's their job to set the right deadlines, to manage expectation and hype. They failed, and should be held accountable for that failure. EDIT: Yes, downvote this. Support CDPR's management and their shitty practices with their employees and their lying to players and investors. I'm sure you'll love the games that come about as a result.

munk-a 6y ago
I think there were some really big marketing mistakes but most of the backlash on CP2077 seems to be over the insane levels of hype. I had pre-ordered this game a long time ago and it was genuinely fun on release, there are some bugged quests and I don't have a card capable of rendering ridiculously good graphics but it's playable and fun. From what I've heard the PS release is absolutely worth getting mad over - it's likely that CDPR should have just given up on even attempting a PS release given how poor the performance is but it probably needs some serious investigation to see what pressure Sony was putting on them to make sure it was available.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

Sodman 6y ago

I don't think it's fair to blame this on gamers. With all of the hyperbole over various games being "broken", most people that are hyped about a specific game are just going to buy it and see for themselves. Unless it's literally unplayable (as may actually have been the case here), most people won't refund it. This has been going on for years and years, it's just getting worse over time. It's always some variant of this conversation at $GAMEDEV_STUDIO: Focus group feedback: Our test groups are noticing 10% of players are running into this bug/issue. It's frustrating them, but there are workarounds. Management: All of our marketing materials target release date XX/XX/XXXX. If we try to fix this bug we'll have to push the release... How many people will _not_ buy the game because of this bug? Focus group feedback: Nobody that would have otherwise bought this game would decide not to buy it over this issue. Management: So we ship as planned, and fix the bugs in a patch. Over time studios realized that you can get away with much bigger bugs affecting much larger portions of players. Ship sooner, start recognizing revenue, and push post-launch patches to fix the "really bad bugs". It's shocking how bad the quality has to get before it starts making headlines.

jgust 6y ago
> I don't think it's fair to blame this on gamers That's sort of what I'm alluding to. Personal responsibility doesn't work when you need collective action, so something else needs to step in to fix this. Reminding gamers to not pre-order is pointless.
ethbr0 6y ago
> Management: So we ship as planned, and fix the bugs in a patch. What's curious, and I assume therefore legally-reasoned, is the consistent lack of preparation for blow-back by companies. Some part of CD Projekt Red knew the game was broken on older consoles. It feels like the only real solution to this is to have legal QA documents, signed off on by QA (as factual) and executive leadership (as read and understood). If there's a magically missing set of older console tests, someone in leadership goes to jail. If leadership publicly misrepresents the stability of the game despite knowing about substantial defects from QA reports, someone goes to jail. Who cares about video games, but this is indicative of a broader social problem allowing executives to feign ignorance and create systems that deflect blame downward. Either you're running the company or not. And if you are... then the legal ramifications should ultimately land at your feet.
- nmfisher 6y ago
  Are you honestly suggesting people go to jail for broken videogames?
  - ethbr0 6y ago
    Yes. It's a USD$150b+ industry.
cheschire 6y ago
I waited for the reviews. When they were over 90% I pulled the trigger. Now I realize I purchased a game that was reviewed on what it will eventually become a la No Man's Sky, not what it was on the day of review. Sure, the crashing didn't affect me, my configuration was more or less normal I guess. Instead what I got was a hollow game that has a lot of hooks ready for eventual expansion sometime in future patches. That didn't deserve the 91% it had when I first bought the game. I don't blame fellow gamers. I blame the reviewers.

rootlocus 6y ago

> If people can't delay gratification for something as inconsequential as "non-broken video games" This doesn't make sense. The game was announced 8 years ago, and it was delayed 8 months. The company said the product was ready and they published a product that was not ready. I've delayed my gratification 8 years for it.

jgust 6y ago
The quote is referring to the concept of pre-ordering a game.