4 ms·

well in Poland CDP is known for crunch... they have reaaly bad opinion. As a pole I wish them well about stock market. As a gamer I wish them the worst after ly

by 5etho 6y ago

well in Poland CDP is known for crunch... they have reaaly bad opinion. As a pole I wish them well about stock market. As a gamer I wish them the worst after lying about last gen

csours 6y ago
Good faith question: Is CDPR worse than other games studios, or do they just get more flak because they claimed they were not going to have crunch anymore? I ask because game dev has been famous for crunch for at least the last 15 years.
- krzyk 6y ago
  Generally in Poland Polish companies are the worst employers in terms of using up employees and paying pennies, and also some times hiring on contract which doesn't give employees enough protection (in terms of pension, protection from being fired without severance package etc.) In the middle is government job (like, policeman, teacher, clerk at the government building) - you get poor pay, but you get normal employment (so, firing = severance package). And the best of all (in most cases, there are exceptions) is a foreign company that does outsourcing - you get good pay + a normal employment contract.
  - mamon 6y ago
    Most people in the Polish software industry works on B2B contracts, for 30-50% better pay. And we typically don't need employment protection, since there's a line of employers eager to hire us. "Normal employment contracts" are for losers (Ok, they are useful under some very specific circumstances e.g. when you have a newborn baby and need a lot of paid sick leave. Outside of that situation, you're simply leaving money on the table by choosing employment contract).
    - krzyk 6y ago
      > Most people in the Polish software industry works on B2B contracts I'm not sure if it is "most". In every company I worked those were outliers (e.g. max ~10%, and in current company it is only for HR/reception workers), but yeah, it is quite common. But not all employers allow B2B contracts and if they do, it frequently involves some kind of worse benefits than the usual employee contract. And different employers have different way of handling vacation (some don't pay for it, some do), so it is another caveat to watch for. And B2B people are always the first ones to let go (they are hired, because of that "perk"), so you can find another job fast, but not always the one you want (e.g. further from your place). Generally if your employer allows you to select form of employment it is quite good sign. If the employer allows only B2B it is usually a way to cut costs for the employer and I would watch out. As you can see I prefer normal, cosy employment contract, but yeah I have children so that probably influences my view.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - mamon 6y ago
        >> B2B people are always the first ones to let go I think you might be mixing two different things here: contract type and job type. Yes, sometimes companies have spikes in demand, for example a project that's delayed and they want to temporarily add some new people. Of course they will use contractors for that, and then those contractors will be let go. But that should be communicated clearly during your job interview, that the role is only temporary. However, many companies seek people for a long term jobs, and B2B vs employment contract is simply the matter of tax optimization. I know contractors working for the same company for 10+ years. They are definitely not the first to be fired.
        krzyk 6y ago
        I worked at one company, it hired contractors long term (I knew a guy that was there for 5 years) and then company wanted to optimize an go public (IPO). They let go of almost all contractors on one day. This happens because most contracts (actually all that I know of) are hired by a intermediary company (think Luxoft etc.) that hires those people. And those people are viewed not as a permanent cost for the company, they are treated (by the stock market or financial institutions) as a short-term cost (like "leasing", not sure if that the same name in English) you can stop buying the service right away. And if company wants to look "fit", it cuts the "fat" (reduces the costs, but keeps the profits), and employees (both contract and job type) are a cost, the "job type" one have additional cost when firing (severance package) but contractual ones don't. So they are the easiest ones to let go in the process of "cutting the fat". (And some of those contractors were later rehired as normal employees, after IPO).

by 5etho 6y ago

well in Poland CDP is known for crunch... they have reaaly bad opinion. As a pole I wish them well about stock market. As a gamer I wish them the worst after lying about last gen

csours 6y ago

Good faith question: Is CDPR worse than other games studios, or do they just get more flak because they claimed they were not going to have crunch anymore? I ask because game dev has been famous for crunch for at least the last 15 years.

krzyk 6y ago
Generally in Poland Polish companies are the worst employers in terms of using up employees and paying pennies, and also some times hiring on contract which doesn't give employees enough protection (in terms of pension, protection from being fired without severance package etc.) In the middle is government job (like, policeman, teacher, clerk at the government building) - you get poor pay, but you get normal employment (so, firing = severance package). And the best of all (in most cases, there are exceptions) is a foreign company that does outsourcing - you get good pay + a normal employment contract.
- mamon 6y ago
  Most people in the Polish software industry works on B2B contracts, for 30-50% better pay. And we typically don't need employment protection, since there's a line of employers eager to hire us. "Normal employment contracts" are for losers (Ok, they are useful under some very specific circumstances e.g. when you have a newborn baby and need a lot of paid sick leave. Outside of that situation, you're simply leaving money on the table by choosing employment contract).
  - krzyk 6y ago
    > Most people in the Polish software industry works on B2B contracts I'm not sure if it is "most". In every company I worked those were outliers (e.g. max ~10%, and in current company it is only for HR/reception workers), but yeah, it is quite common. But not all employers allow B2B contracts and if they do, it frequently involves some kind of worse benefits than the usual employee contract. And different employers have different way of handling vacation (some don't pay for it, some do), so it is another caveat to watch for. And B2B people are always the first ones to let go (they are hired, because of that "perk"), so you can find another job fast, but not always the one you want (e.g. further from your place). Generally if your employer allows you to select form of employment it is quite good sign. If the employer allows only B2B it is usually a way to cut costs for the employer and I would watch out. As you can see I prefer normal, cosy employment contract, but yeah I have children so that probably influences my view.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - mamon 6y ago
      >> B2B people are always the first ones to let go I think you might be mixing two different things here: contract type and job type. Yes, sometimes companies have spikes in demand, for example a project that's delayed and they want to temporarily add some new people. Of course they will use contractors for that, and then those contractors will be let go. But that should be communicated clearly during your job interview, that the role is only temporary. However, many companies seek people for a long term jobs, and B2B vs employment contract is simply the matter of tax optimization. I know contractors working for the same company for 10+ years. They are definitely not the first to be fired.
      - krzyk 6y ago
        I worked at one company, it hired contractors long term (I knew a guy that was there for 5 years) and then company wanted to optimize an go public (IPO). They let go of almost all contractors on one day. This happens because most contracts (actually all that I know of) are hired by a intermediary company (think Luxoft etc.) that hires those people. And those people are viewed not as a permanent cost for the company, they are treated (by the stock market or financial institutions) as a short-term cost (like "leasing", not sure if that the same name in English) you can stop buying the service right away. And if company wants to look "fit", it cuts the "fat" (reduces the costs, but keeps the profits), and employees (both contract and job type) are a cost, the "job type" one have additional cost when firing (severance package) but contractual ones don't. So they are the easiest ones to let go in the process of "cutting the fat". (And some of those contractors were later rehired as normal employees, after IPO).