3 ms·

> This is distinctly different than how iMessage and Telegram work because in both of those apps they store your private key. Does anyone have a moment to expl

by pkulak 6y ago

> This is distinctly different than how iMessage and Telegram work because in both of those apps they store your private key. Does anyone have a moment to explain this one to me? Seems to me you'd of course have to store your own key on the device. And if Apple is storing it themselves... that's news to me and pretty concerning.

rwcarlsen 6y ago
Here's an article that goes over some of the issues: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/imessage-weak-encryption-matthew-green,32466.html https://www.tomshardware.com/news/imessage-weak-encryption-m...
resonanttoe 6y ago
I think the author is over-simplifying here a deal. Page 99 here. https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/1000/MA1902/en_US/apple-platform-security-guide.pdf https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/1000/MA1902/en_US/app... Which describes that the private keys are generated and held on device. Now I think this model *may change when you enable icloud messaging, in which case an encrypted messaging key may be stored in your icloud account. So you may opt to have apple store it, but in an encrypted manner that they can't undo. This part is a bit speculative on my part though, so grain of salt.
JustinGarrison 6y ago
iMessage does store a secure key locally on your device which never leaves. The main difference with iMessage is Apple is able to add more signing keys to decrypt the data if they wanted. This is what happens when you add a new device. In a no-trust model once you sign in on a new device you wouldn't see all of your old messages. Because all of your old messages are decrypted and sent to the new device this is evidence that a new signing key was added to the communication chain. Apple could also do this to decrypt your messages to give to a government agency or for whatever purposes they want without notifying you. https://techcrunch.com/2014/02/27/apple-explains-exactly-how-secure-imessage-really-is/ https://techcrunch.com/2014/02/27/apple-explains-exactly-how...

by pkulak 6y ago

rwcarlsen 6y ago

Here's an article that goes over some of the issues: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/imessage-weak-encryption-matthew-green,32466.html https://www.tomshardware.com/news/imessage-weak-encryption-m...

resonanttoe 6y ago

I think the author is over-simplifying here a deal. Page 99 here. https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/1000/MA1902/en_US/apple-platform-security-guide.pdf https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/1000/MA1902/en_US/app... Which describes that the private keys are generated and held on device. Now I think this model *may change when you enable icloud messaging, in which case an encrypted messaging key may be stored in your icloud account. So you may opt to have apple store it, but in an encrypted manner that they can't undo. This part is a bit speculative on my part though, so grain of salt.

JustinGarrison 6y ago

iMessage does store a secure key locally on your device which never leaves. The main difference with iMessage is Apple is able to add more signing keys to decrypt the data if they wanted. This is what happens when you add a new device. In a no-trust model once you sign in on a new device you wouldn't see all of your old messages. Because all of your old messages are decrypted and sent to the new device this is evidence that a new signing key was added to the communication chain. Apple could also do this to decrypt your messages to give to a government agency or for whatever purposes they want without notifying you. https://techcrunch.com/2014/02/27/apple-explains-exactly-how-secure-imessage-really-is/ https://techcrunch.com/2014/02/27/apple-explains-exactly-how...