3 ms·

And if all the bakers in town refuse to bake you a cake, should you be able to force one to? Seriously, when there are dozens of options and none of them want

And if all the bakers in town refuse to bake you a cake, should you be able to force one to? Seriously, when there are dozens of options and none of them want your business, shouldn't that give you pause? If all the insurance agencies refuse to insure your ship because they think it will sink, wouldn't it be prudent to double check your blueprints/construction ?

jeffreyrogers 6y ago
It's not that none of the other options want their business (though I have no doubt that Google and probably Microsoft would also exclude them). It's that you can't just switch platforms within days, while you could go order another cake since there's almost no time commitment to requesting a cake.
- DickingAround 6y ago
  That is a mistake of getting a very ad-hoc contract and then doing something that creates a lot of risk of negative consequences (i.e. supporting the overthrow of a democracy). Honestly, this feels to me like just the best sort of stuff that private companies, and a world that relies on them does: Everyone likes but doesn't need those services. There's a lot of companies competing and the offering is great. If someone is such a pain in the butt that no one wants to do business with them, they have a hard time but still can if they want to go it alone and build it all themselves. These are light "highlights how well it works" stories to me.
  - jeffreyrogers 6y ago
    > i.e. supporting the overthrow of a democracy Do you have evidence that Parler was involved in the storming of the Capitol building? Glenn Greenwald says it was not involved. > Everyone likes but doesn't need those services Well the employees of the company sure need them if they want to pay their mortgages, buy food, etc.
    - mech422 6y ago
      Given 70TB of parler data was leaked, I'm sure people can find out one way or another if they are so inclined.
- mech422 6y ago
  while that maybe true - it happens fairly often, usually with no warning at all. If anything, parler got preferential treatment by getting notice BEFORE getting terminated. Most just get "your account has been locked/terminated/etc" emails after the fact. There's bunches of horror stories on HN about it...
  - jeffreyrogers 6y ago
    I don't think the fact that it's happened to others has any bearing on its rightness or wrongness.
FeepingCreature 6y ago
> And if all the bakers in town refuse to bake you a cake, should you be able to force one to? Yes. edit: Well, they could also close all of their bakeries. I'm willing to allow them that option.
- hayd 6y ago
  The same argument applies if you wanted to commission a cake celebrating the holocaust. The distinction must be that anyone (any race, any sexual orientation, etc. etc.) should be able to buy anything "off the shelf" (e.g. a plain cake or wedding cake). But no one should be forced to write/design/create something which they don't want to. My bakery should be allowed to refuse to bake a cake celebrating the holocaust.
  - bhelkey 6y ago
    In your opinion, should bakeries be allowed to refuse to make a custom wedding cake for the wedding of a gay couple? (e.g. Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpiece_Cakeshop_v._Colorado_Civil_Rights_Commission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpiece_Cakeshop_v._Colora...
  - FeepingCreature 6y ago
    > The distinction must be that anyone (any race, any sexual orientation, etc. etc.) should be able to buy anything "off the shelf" (e.g. a plain cake or wedding cake). But no one should be forced to write/design/create something which they don't want to. I agree with this distinction (no compelled creative labor), but note that this leaves stuff like file hosting, DNS services and data centers squarely on the "off the shelf" side. And you would still be forced to bake a cake for an out-and-loud Nazi. Just not decorate it with an artful "1488 blaze it".

jeffreyrogers 6y ago

It's not that none of the other options want their business (though I have no doubt that Google and probably Microsoft would also exclude them). It's that you can't just switch platforms within days, while you could go order another cake since there's almost no time commitment to requesting a cake.

DickingAround 6y ago
That is a mistake of getting a very ad-hoc contract and then doing something that creates a lot of risk of negative consequences (i.e. supporting the overthrow of a democracy). Honestly, this feels to me like just the best sort of stuff that private companies, and a world that relies on them does: Everyone likes but doesn't need those services. There's a lot of companies competing and the offering is great. If someone is such a pain in the butt that no one wants to do business with them, they have a hard time but still can if they want to go it alone and build it all themselves. These are light "highlights how well it works" stories to me.
- jeffreyrogers 6y ago
  > i.e. supporting the overthrow of a democracy Do you have evidence that Parler was involved in the storming of the Capitol building? Glenn Greenwald says it was not involved. > Everyone likes but doesn't need those services Well the employees of the company sure need them if they want to pay their mortgages, buy food, etc.
  - mech422 6y ago
    Given 70TB of parler data was leaked, I'm sure people can find out one way or another if they are so inclined.
mech422 6y ago
while that maybe true - it happens fairly often, usually with no warning at all. If anything, parler got preferential treatment by getting notice BEFORE getting terminated. Most just get "your account has been locked/terminated/etc" emails after the fact. There's bunches of horror stories on HN about it...
- jeffreyrogers 6y ago
  I don't think the fact that it's happened to others has any bearing on its rightness or wrongness.

FeepingCreature 6y ago

> And if all the bakers in town refuse to bake you a cake, should you be able to force one to? Yes. edit: Well, they could also close all of their bakeries. I'm willing to allow them that option.

hayd 6y ago
The same argument applies if you wanted to commission a cake celebrating the holocaust. The distinction must be that anyone (any race, any sexual orientation, etc. etc.) should be able to buy anything "off the shelf" (e.g. a plain cake or wedding cake). But no one should be forced to write/design/create something which they don't want to. My bakery should be allowed to refuse to bake a cake celebrating the holocaust.
- bhelkey 6y ago
  In your opinion, should bakeries be allowed to refuse to make a custom wedding cake for the wedding of a gay couple? (e.g. Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpiece_Cakeshop_v._Colorado_Civil_Rights_Commission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpiece_Cakeshop_v._Colora...
- FeepingCreature 6y ago
  > The distinction must be that anyone (any race, any sexual orientation, etc. etc.) should be able to buy anything "off the shelf" (e.g. a plain cake or wedding cake). But no one should be forced to write/design/create something which they don't want to. I agree with this distinction (no compelled creative labor), but note that this leaves stuff like file hosting, DNS services and data centers squarely on the "off the shelf" side. And you would still be forced to bake a cake for an out-and-loud Nazi. Just not decorate it with an artful "1488 blaze it".