4 ms·

There is a German saying that goes something like "if there’s a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you've got a table with 11 N

by evgen 6y ago

There is a German saying that goes something like "if there’s a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you've got a table with 11 Nazis.”

cbozeman 6y ago
A saying from a nation with collective psychological trauma of over 100 years. No thanks. That's an idiotic saying. The person's comment above you is also idiotic. When Twitter is banning feminist women for saying something as so patently obvious as, "Men are not women." [1] then don't be surprised when people choose to make accounts at any available social media service because 1) people aren't creating blogs that get 100 million visitors anymore (if such blogs ever existed) and 2) no one has any idea which social media platform will become the next 3 billion user juggernaut and which one will be converted into a shitty music-focused platform. [1]: Meghan Murphy, banned in 2018 for "hateful conduct" following a heated exchange which involved misgendering a transgender woman. The fact that someone could be banned for fucking misgendering someone indicates just how pathetic our society has become. These services have a block button, and apparently no one knows how to use it.
- lern_too_spel 6y ago
  Twitter had a policy against misgendering and had locked her out of her account several times before banning her. If this is something Meghan thinks is worth getting banned over, that's on her. Most people just don't care what pronoun somebody wants to be called, so the non-asshole thing to do is to just use their preferred pronoun.
  - cbozeman 6y ago
    > so the non-asshole thing to do is to just use their preferred pronoun. I agree. I completely agree. I myself call the transgender people in my life by their preferred pronoun. I also find compelling someone's speech by threat of banning them to be disgusting. Especially when there's a block button available. If you don't like what someone's saying, you can literally ignore everything they say. Herein lies the conundrum for me - for, what seems to be, an increasingly large group of people, its not enough to simply stop interaction with people they don't like, those people have to be removed from the landscape altogether. I just do not see this ending in any positive way.
    - lern_too_spel 6y ago
      Blocking does not scale if you interact with a lot of people (see many famous examples of celebrities quitting Twitter over harrassment), which is something Twitter would obviously want its users to do. To make it easier, it makes absolute sense to me for Twitter to enforce clearly defined civility rules.
      - cbozeman 6y ago
        > Blocking does not scale if you interact with a lot of people (see many famous examples of celebrities quitting Twitter over harrassment), which is something Twitter would obviously want its users to do. This seems to be viewed as a sort of "bug" of scale; I see it as a feature. If you become extremely popular and your voice is amplified, you're going to have to contend with being criticized and scrutinized to a greater degree. I fall into the Sam Harris & Joe Rogan Greater Internet Reply Theory: "Don't read the comments. You can't read the comments." Jamie Foxx said it best on why you don't need to read them, "Sometimes the comments'll get in that ass." I will simply never agree with removing someone for the content of their speech. I do think that you eventually reach a point of harassment (for example, if you reply to every single tweet of someone you don't like with, "You're a cunt."), but by-and-large, a lot of the "problems" simply result in people not being able to ignore others, either by using a button on a website, or just by sheer willpower of not looking at a comment.
    - joshuamorton 6y ago
      Her speech was not compelled. She was removed from twitter. She wasn't unpersoned. She isn't in a gulag. Stop hyperbolizing and your concerns get a lot less concerning.
      - cbozeman 6y ago
        > Her speech was not compelled. "Don't say this thing, or we'll ban you forever from the platform." If I walk up to you and say, "Don't say this thing, or me and my 9 associates here will punch you in the face," that's compulsion. Period.
- evgen 6y ago
  > A saying from a nation with collective psychological trauma of over 100 years. No thanks. Well, they do know what happens when you let Nazis and their apologists/enablers get a toehold in public discourse, so maybe they actually have something useful to contribute to the discussion.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

by evgen 6y ago

There is a German saying that goes something like "if there’s a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you've got a table with 11 Nazis.”

cbozeman 6y ago

A saying from a nation with collective psychological trauma of over 100 years. No thanks. That's an idiotic saying. The person's comment above you is also idiotic. When Twitter is banning feminist women for saying something as so patently obvious as, "Men are not women." [1] then don't be surprised when people choose to make accounts at any available social media service because 1) people aren't creating blogs that get 100 million visitors anymore (if such blogs ever existed) and 2) no one has any idea which social media platform will become the next 3 billion user juggernaut and which one will be converted into a shitty music-focused platform. [1]: Meghan Murphy, banned in 2018 for "hateful conduct" following a heated exchange which involved misgendering a transgender woman. The fact that someone could be banned for fucking misgendering someone indicates just how pathetic our society has become. These services have a block button, and apparently no one knows how to use it.

lern_too_spel 6y ago
Twitter had a policy against misgendering and had locked her out of her account several times before banning her. If this is something Meghan thinks is worth getting banned over, that's on her. Most people just don't care what pronoun somebody wants to be called, so the non-asshole thing to do is to just use their preferred pronoun.
- cbozeman 6y ago
  > so the non-asshole thing to do is to just use their preferred pronoun. I agree. I completely agree. I myself call the transgender people in my life by their preferred pronoun. I also find compelling someone's speech by threat of banning them to be disgusting. Especially when there's a block button available. If you don't like what someone's saying, you can literally ignore everything they say. Herein lies the conundrum for me - for, what seems to be, an increasingly large group of people, its not enough to simply stop interaction with people they don't like, those people have to be removed from the landscape altogether. I just do not see this ending in any positive way.
  - lern_too_spel 6y ago
    Blocking does not scale if you interact with a lot of people (see many famous examples of celebrities quitting Twitter over harrassment), which is something Twitter would obviously want its users to do. To make it easier, it makes absolute sense to me for Twitter to enforce clearly defined civility rules.
    - cbozeman 6y ago
      > Blocking does not scale if you interact with a lot of people (see many famous examples of celebrities quitting Twitter over harrassment), which is something Twitter would obviously want its users to do. This seems to be viewed as a sort of "bug" of scale; I see it as a feature. If you become extremely popular and your voice is amplified, you're going to have to contend with being criticized and scrutinized to a greater degree. I fall into the Sam Harris & Joe Rogan Greater Internet Reply Theory: "Don't read the comments. You can't read the comments." Jamie Foxx said it best on why you don't need to read them, "Sometimes the comments'll get in that ass." I will simply never agree with removing someone for the content of their speech. I do think that you eventually reach a point of harassment (for example, if you reply to every single tweet of someone you don't like with, "You're a cunt."), but by-and-large, a lot of the "problems" simply result in people not being able to ignore others, either by using a button on a website, or just by sheer willpower of not looking at a comment.
  - joshuamorton 6y ago
    Her speech was not compelled. She was removed from twitter. She wasn't unpersoned. She isn't in a gulag. Stop hyperbolizing and your concerns get a lot less concerning.
    - cbozeman 6y ago
      > Her speech was not compelled. "Don't say this thing, or we'll ban you forever from the platform." If I walk up to you and say, "Don't say this thing, or me and my 9 associates here will punch you in the face," that's compulsion. Period.
evgen 6y ago
> A saying from a nation with collective psychological trauma of over 100 years. No thanks. Well, they do know what happens when you let Nazis and their apologists/enablers get a toehold in public discourse, so maybe they actually have something useful to contribute to the discussion.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]