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> Do you really think Hyundai is going to use this tech for humanitarian aid No, but like Ford or Mercedes or any other company like then, I believe they would

> Do you really think Hyundai is going to use this tech for humanitarian aid No, but like Ford or Mercedes or any other company like then, I believe they would sell this tech to humanitarian aid organizations that might use it. > I want a strong US to counter the fact that the number one economy in the world is a fascist state. If you don’t want people to say you’re motivated by nativist greed, maybe try having ideas that aren’t nakedly greedy and nativist? At the very least your nihilistic zero-sum America-first attitude is morally indistinguishable from Trumpism, even if in your head it sounds more noble and strategic. First of all, China has the largest population in the world. They should be the biggest economy in the world, regardless of how evil their government is. Second of all, if you were truly motivated by a noble desire to stop global fascism, you should be glad that South Korea has this technology instead of the US! The point should be that democratic countries counter China’s power, not that it should be US v. China. In particular, not only is South Korea more directly threatened by Chinese authoritarianism, but their government is far more stable and democratic than the US. The US has only been a democracy since 1965 and, unlike South Korea, our democracy is rapidly decaying. But it seems that your nativism is leading you to greedily assert the US should be the most powerful country in the world because something something China fascists, despite the fact that we just saw an attempted fascist takeover of Congress by US citizens. It’s deeply hypocritical and indefensible.

echelon 6y ago
> your nihilistic zero-sum America-first attitude is morally indistinguishable from Trumpism I voted for Biden, Warnock, and Ossoff. Just because you're left of me doesn't make it okay to apply the "Trump" label so broadly. It's not Trumpism to have some degree of nationalism (reverence for our demoratic institutions, multiculturalism, values, economy). Nor is it to worry we went too far with globalism and created a system that gave rise to today's CCP. We should want for a better, more equitable America. We should want the same for the world. I think we agree on this. > If you don’t want people to say you’re motivated by nativist greed, maybe try having ideas that aren’t nakedly greedy and nativist? At the very least your nihilistic zero-sum America-first attitude is morally indistinguishable from Trumpism, even if in your head it sounds more noble and strategic. I live in America and I want growth. Are we not allowed disappointment over the fact we're hemorrhaging technologies and capabilities? If you believe this is a zero-sum game, then do you want America's lead to be averaged out over the rest of the world? I believe all people are equal. I want democratic nations to grow. India, in particular, is poised for great growth. But that doesn't mean I want our engines to stall or level out. I do not believe all nations or systems of government are equal. China, Russia, and our ally Saudi Arabia are detriments to their people and peace worldwide. These players shouldn't be equals. I would love for their citizens to emigrate and gain freedom. > The point should be that democratic countries counter China’s power, not that it should be US v. China. I would agree with you if we had a global democratic union. The moment all nations sign up to protect personal liberty, create a strong worldwide economy with ample opportunity, upward mobility, and commit to defending this in unison -- sign me up. But that isn't going to happen. Japan and Vietnam have the correct ideas about China. We need to sell them lots of weapons. Europe, on the other hand, doesn't know where its allegiances lie. And the rest of the world is willing to partner with China to get a better deal. Nationalism isn't Trumpism. The world still needs a strong America. > despite the fact that we just saw an attempted fascist takeover of Congress by US citizens. I shuddered at this too. We need to punish Trump, the enablers in law enforcement and positions of power, and all other parties that made last week's events possible. But to think a bunch of hillbillies stood any chance of destroying our democratic institutions is a bit much. I agree that this should be called out as an example for now and forever, but do not use this as evidence that America is a fascist state. The results of the election prove otherwise. > First of all, China has the largest population in the world. They should be the biggest economy in the world, regardless of how evil their government is. This is the root of our disagreement. Totalitarian regimes should not prosper. If there was only one government in the world, I'd want it to be democratic. But democracy won't win unless we fight for it. Democracy isn't the default. It doesn't get to exist just because we hope for it. So far, it's just been a blip on the radar. It could disappear in a moment if we don't defend it. Europe exists because of America. If America stops protecting it, Russia's influence will take it over. China is the next great enemy. Same story.

echelon 6y ago

> your nihilistic zero-sum America-first attitude is morally indistinguishable from Trumpism I voted for Biden, Warnock, and Ossoff. Just because you're left of me doesn't make it okay to apply the "Trump" label so broadly. It's not Trumpism to have some degree of nationalism (reverence for our demoratic institutions, multiculturalism, values, economy). Nor is it to worry we went too far with globalism and created a system that gave rise to today's CCP. We should want for a better, more equitable America. We should want the same for the world. I think we agree on this. > If you don’t want people to say you’re motivated by nativist greed, maybe try having ideas that aren’t nakedly greedy and nativist? At the very least your nihilistic zero-sum America-first attitude is morally indistinguishable from Trumpism, even if in your head it sounds more noble and strategic. I live in America and I want growth. Are we not allowed disappointment over the fact we're hemorrhaging technologies and capabilities? If you believe this is a zero-sum game, then do you want America's lead to be averaged out over the rest of the world? I believe all people are equal. I want democratic nations to grow. India, in particular, is poised for great growth. But that doesn't mean I want our engines to stall or level out. I do not believe all nations or systems of government are equal. China, Russia, and our ally Saudi Arabia are detriments to their people and peace worldwide. These players shouldn't be equals. I would love for their citizens to emigrate and gain freedom. > The point should be that democratic countries counter China’s power, not that it should be US v. China. I would agree with you if we had a global democratic union. The moment all nations sign up to protect personal liberty, create a strong worldwide economy with ample opportunity, upward mobility, and commit to defending this in unison -- sign me up. But that isn't going to happen. Japan and Vietnam have the correct ideas about China. We need to sell them lots of weapons. Europe, on the other hand, doesn't know where its allegiances lie. And the rest of the world is willing to partner with China to get a better deal. Nationalism isn't Trumpism. The world still needs a strong America. > despite the fact that we just saw an attempted fascist takeover of Congress by US citizens. I shuddered at this too. We need to punish Trump, the enablers in law enforcement and positions of power, and all other parties that made last week's events possible. But to think a bunch of hillbillies stood any chance of destroying our democratic institutions is a bit much. I agree that this should be called out as an example for now and forever, but do not use this as evidence that America is a fascist state. The results of the election prove otherwise. > First of all, China has the largest population in the world. They should be the biggest economy in the world, regardless of how evil their government is. This is the root of our disagreement. Totalitarian regimes should not prosper. If there was only one government in the world, I'd want it to be democratic. But democracy won't win unless we fight for it. Democracy isn't the default. It doesn't get to exist just because we hope for it. So far, it's just been a blip on the radar. It could disappear in a moment if we don't defend it. Europe exists because of America. If America stops protecting it, Russia's influence will take it over. China is the next great enemy. Same story.