13 ms·

I cannot believe that this isn't the foundation of autonomous driving: long hauls, highways, no stop signs, semi-controlled circumstances. The economics are mor

by jariel 6y ago

I cannot believe that this isn't the foundation of autonomous driving: long hauls, highways, no stop signs, semi-controlled circumstances. The economics are more clear and industrialized. Even if a driver had to be present when they got off the highway, I think 'long haul' should be naturally the first thing to be tackled. And I'm surprised Walmart isn't leading the way, they should be.

StreamBright 6y ago
There is one minor detail to add: the truck weight and speed makes it much more dangerous than a simple passenger car. The first couple of lawsuits when these statistical engines do some real damage will be brutal.
Cthulhu_ 6y ago
It already is; autonomous vehicles active now are e.g. airport light rails. Short hauls, fixed track and schedules, very controlled environments so not even a need for e.g. lidar or smart cameras or anything. Distance sensors to kick in in case of unexpected obstacles maybe.
sseagull 6y ago
But even semi-controlled isn't fully controlled. I've always wondered about what happens when the system really gets off the 'happy path'. Maybe there's an accident, and police are directing traffic? Does the truck understand hand gestures (which aren't necessarily standardized)? Or maybe the police aren't there yet, damaged cars are blocking the road, and the truck may need to get out of the way for emergency services to arrive (possibly requiring going a little off road). These happen less on highways, but they still certainly happen, and not having a human in the loop can make things dramatically worse. Do they have to stop at weigh stations? Do they understand the signage? I suppose most would have the system where you don't have to stop, but I don't know if all weigh stations support that. There are lots of instances you can imagine that don't require driving skills, but actually require a general intelligence with knowledge of the world around them. (I suppose you can have a command center where someone can take control or give commands to the truck. Sounds tricky but possible).
- Erlich_Bachman 6y ago
  They'll just have remote control and call HQ on every unexpected operation, where an operator will make a decision using cameras. On routes without cell coverage they'll use satellite internet or starlink, etc. It's not reliable enough to make operator drive it all the time, but it would already today be reliable enough to keep safety in extreme situations and make the operator make decisions.
bluGill 6y ago
Walmart doesn't do much long haul. They do the warehouse to store, but that is a lot of local roads so the logistics of getting drivers to/from the truck on highway access is harder than just keeping a driver in the truck. The big truck companies are interested in this. They mostly highway travel so a team of trucker drivers in each city isn't as logistically difficult. Plus they can promise their drivers home each night instead of twice a month.
- jariel 6y ago
  Walmart is interested in moving a lot of stuff at scale. Apparently they wanted to help build a massive superhighway from mexico to somewhere in the midwest. It's a great idea. Walmart should be taking much more initiative in all of this as one of the only entities that can feasibly take on Amazon. I wish the President would make a national strategy over this 'Digital Pathways Act 2030' - i.e. make all major highways, railroads, and other 'rights of way' completely autonomous and electric by 2030. Even for human passenger cargo - long-haul buses may actually compete with trains on price and comfort if they were fully autonomous - especially for shorter routes. One of the problems with 'trains' in America is that the US is a little spread out, trains can't just go downtown to downtown - but autonomous buses could. So this could be like quasi-public transport initiative from at very least New England down to DC - that entire corridor. What we need is someone to 're-brand' bus travel and make it social acceptable for middle/upper class folks to ride instead of the agrarian/lower-class greyhound. Nothing against greyhound but it's just not the experience many people want.

by jariel 6y ago

StreamBright 6y ago

There is one minor detail to add: the truck weight and speed makes it much more dangerous than a simple passenger car. The first couple of lawsuits when these statistical engines do some real damage will be brutal.

Cthulhu_ 6y ago

It already is; autonomous vehicles active now are e.g. airport light rails. Short hauls, fixed track and schedules, very controlled environments so not even a need for e.g. lidar or smart cameras or anything. Distance sensors to kick in in case of unexpected obstacles maybe.

sseagull 6y ago

But even semi-controlled isn't fully controlled. I've always wondered about what happens when the system really gets off the 'happy path'. Maybe there's an accident, and police are directing traffic? Does the truck understand hand gestures (which aren't necessarily standardized)? Or maybe the police aren't there yet, damaged cars are blocking the road, and the truck may need to get out of the way for emergency services to arrive (possibly requiring going a little off road). These happen less on highways, but they still certainly happen, and not having a human in the loop can make things dramatically worse. Do they have to stop at weigh stations? Do they understand the signage? I suppose most would have the system where you don't have to stop, but I don't know if all weigh stations support that. There are lots of instances you can imagine that don't require driving skills, but actually require a general intelligence with knowledge of the world around them. (I suppose you can have a command center where someone can take control or give commands to the truck. Sounds tricky but possible).

Erlich_Bachman 6y ago
They'll just have remote control and call HQ on every unexpected operation, where an operator will make a decision using cameras. On routes without cell coverage they'll use satellite internet or starlink, etc. It's not reliable enough to make operator drive it all the time, but it would already today be reliable enough to keep safety in extreme situations and make the operator make decisions.

bluGill 6y ago

Walmart doesn't do much long haul. They do the warehouse to store, but that is a lot of local roads so the logistics of getting drivers to/from the truck on highway access is harder than just keeping a driver in the truck. The big truck companies are interested in this. They mostly highway travel so a team of trucker drivers in each city isn't as logistically difficult. Plus they can promise their drivers home each night instead of twice a month.

jariel 6y ago
Walmart is interested in moving a lot of stuff at scale. Apparently they wanted to help build a massive superhighway from mexico to somewhere in the midwest. It's a great idea. Walmart should be taking much more initiative in all of this as one of the only entities that can feasibly take on Amazon. I wish the President would make a national strategy over this 'Digital Pathways Act 2030' - i.e. make all major highways, railroads, and other 'rights of way' completely autonomous and electric by 2030. Even for human passenger cargo - long-haul buses may actually compete with trains on price and comfort if they were fully autonomous - especially for shorter routes. One of the problems with 'trains' in America is that the US is a little spread out, trains can't just go downtown to downtown - but autonomous buses could. So this could be like quasi-public transport initiative from at very least New England down to DC - that entire corridor. What we need is someone to 're-brand' bus travel and make it social acceptable for middle/upper class folks to ride instead of the agrarian/lower-class greyhound. Nothing against greyhound but it's just not the experience many people want.