5 ms·

UK primary schools have advanced a lot in recent years, but there seems to be a lot of inertia. They still focus heavily on things like cursive and rote learnin

by zelos 6y ago

UK primary schools have advanced a lot in recent years, but there seems to be a lot of inertia. They still focus heavily on things like cursive and rote learning of multiplication tables. There's a lot of emphasis on things you can test: memorise the names of the continents, but don't waste any time actually explaining what continents are or how they're formed. My kids' teachers' response to the fact that children don't recognise coins any more (because no one carries cash) is not to spend less time teaching about money, but to ask parents to show their kids more coins.

ogogmad 6y ago
> rote learning of multiplication tables How can you do maths if you can't multiply single-digit numbers? Doesn't knowing long multiplication help with learning algebra? > don't waste any time actually explaining what continents are Is Europe a continent or is Eurasia? [edit] Quoting Wikipedia: "A continent is one of several large landmasses. Generally identified by convention rather than any strict criteria ..."
- nicoburns 6y ago
  > How can you do maths if you can't multiply single-digit numbers? Doesn't knowing long multiplication help with learning algebra? I eventually learnt my times tables, but I was always able to multiply in my head quick enough that I didn't really need to. In any case I think the issue is taken with an over-focus on this. The OP is not suggesting that times tables shouldn't be taught at all.
signal11 6y ago
> rote learning of multiplication tables I'm curious - doesn't rote learning of multiplication tables make it easier to do a bunch of K-12 (in the UK, Foundation through Sixth Form - I think) math? Also, yes, coins are less important now, but I always thought those problems teach little children how to solve a particular type of knapsack problem, which has learning benefits beyond knowing how to wrangle coins. I'm all for making math more approachable, but not at the cost of producing people who're utterly out of sorts without a calculator. What am I missing?
- bambataa 6y ago
  There seems to be an idea, which I find deeply odd, that kids don’t need to be taught something once an alternative appears: arithmetic —> calculators coins -> contactless cursive -> typing I just find it bizarre how quickly people are willing to throw things out, leaving children utterly reliant on the new tech.
  - cannam 6y ago
    You've just reminded me how wonderful the principle of the slide rule appeared, when I eventually encountered one after a childhood using calculators.
  - zelos 6y ago
    I wasn't suggesting that it should be thrown out, but mabe a shift in emphasis is needed. Multiple hours on times tables 2-12 is a lot of time out of the school week. Maybe my own memories of frustration at school, plus having to calm down a deeply upset, bored, son after school so many times affect my perception of the system.
    - bambataa 6y ago
      Sure, but multiplication tables are fundamental and are useful lifelong. Coins are still a very common feature of life and also useful for teaching addition, also very useful for life. I appreciate we have to move with the times (I’m not pushing for reintroducing log tables) but it seems useful that kids come out with a solid grasp of fundamental reality around them —- reading an analogue clock, knowing the shape of the world in broad outline, being able to count change. To use a programming analogy, it is better to teach someone JS and how to do DOM manipulation, so that they see it’s a pain, and then show them React and how it’s useful, than just jumping straight into the current state of the art.
raverbashing 6y ago
Well the US and UK coins are just the worse for recognition. Why is a 10 cents coin smaller than a 5 cent one? Canada at least has $1/$2 making coins more useful. Compare this with Euro coins with sizes and weights/features proportional to their value.
- richardwhiuk 6y ago
  The Euro coins are rubbish. There's very little differentiation in size, and the 1 cent coin is too small. (Also, note, the 10 Euro cent coin is smaller than the 5 Euro cent coin, the 50 Euro cent coin is both bigger and heavier than a 1 Euro coin).
  - raverbashing 6y ago
    Several countries retired the 1 cent coin in Europe (also in Canada) Their main differentiations are on the rim pattern besides the size. > the 50 Euro cent coin is both bigger and heavier than a 1 Euro coin By 1mm (I had to check), but they are sufficiently different from the 50 cent coin to be set apart by a glance
- ogogmad 6y ago
  I think it's historical: The value of a coin was once a function of the material it was made from and the size of the coin. The lowest value coins were made from bronze; the next lowest were made from silver; and the most valuable were made from gold. Among coins made from the same metal, those which were bigger were more valuable. This explains the size and look of different British coins.
  - kd5bjo 6y ago
    This explanation works for US dimes, quarters, and half-dollars as well (plus the old, giant, dollar coins). At one point I worked out that they’re all $20/lb.
ChrisRR 6y ago
I've never seen a UK school teach cursive, only joined-up writing.

by zelos 6y ago

ogogmad 6y ago

> rote learning of multiplication tables How can you do maths if you can't multiply single-digit numbers? Doesn't knowing long multiplication help with learning algebra? > don't waste any time actually explaining what continents are Is Europe a continent or is Eurasia? [edit] Quoting Wikipedia: "A continent is one of several large landmasses. Generally identified by convention rather than any strict criteria ..."

nicoburns 6y ago
> How can you do maths if you can't multiply single-digit numbers? Doesn't knowing long multiplication help with learning algebra? I eventually learnt my times tables, but I was always able to multiply in my head quick enough that I didn't really need to. In any case I think the issue is taken with an over-focus on this. The OP is not suggesting that times tables shouldn't be taught at all.

signal11 6y ago

> rote learning of multiplication tables I'm curious - doesn't rote learning of multiplication tables make it easier to do a bunch of K-12 (in the UK, Foundation through Sixth Form - I think) math? Also, yes, coins are less important now, but I always thought those problems teach little children how to solve a particular type of knapsack problem, which has learning benefits beyond knowing how to wrangle coins. I'm all for making math more approachable, but not at the cost of producing people who're utterly out of sorts without a calculator. What am I missing?

bambataa 6y ago
There seems to be an idea, which I find deeply odd, that kids don’t need to be taught something once an alternative appears: arithmetic —> calculators coins -> contactless cursive -> typing I just find it bizarre how quickly people are willing to throw things out, leaving children utterly reliant on the new tech.
- cannam 6y ago
  You've just reminded me how wonderful the principle of the slide rule appeared, when I eventually encountered one after a childhood using calculators.
- zelos 6y ago
  I wasn't suggesting that it should be thrown out, but mabe a shift in emphasis is needed. Multiple hours on times tables 2-12 is a lot of time out of the school week. Maybe my own memories of frustration at school, plus having to calm down a deeply upset, bored, son after school so many times affect my perception of the system.
  - bambataa 6y ago
    Sure, but multiplication tables are fundamental and are useful lifelong. Coins are still a very common feature of life and also useful for teaching addition, also very useful for life. I appreciate we have to move with the times (I’m not pushing for reintroducing log tables) but it seems useful that kids come out with a solid grasp of fundamental reality around them —- reading an analogue clock, knowing the shape of the world in broad outline, being able to count change. To use a programming analogy, it is better to teach someone JS and how to do DOM manipulation, so that they see it’s a pain, and then show them React and how it’s useful, than just jumping straight into the current state of the art.

raverbashing 6y ago

Well the US and UK coins are just the worse for recognition. Why is a 10 cents coin smaller than a 5 cent one? Canada at least has $1/$2 making coins more useful. Compare this with Euro coins with sizes and weights/features proportional to their value.

richardwhiuk 6y ago
The Euro coins are rubbish. There's very little differentiation in size, and the 1 cent coin is too small. (Also, note, the 10 Euro cent coin is smaller than the 5 Euro cent coin, the 50 Euro cent coin is both bigger and heavier than a 1 Euro coin).
- raverbashing 6y ago
  Several countries retired the 1 cent coin in Europe (also in Canada) Their main differentiations are on the rim pattern besides the size. > the 50 Euro cent coin is both bigger and heavier than a 1 Euro coin By 1mm (I had to check), but they are sufficiently different from the 50 cent coin to be set apart by a glance
ogogmad 6y ago
I think it's historical: The value of a coin was once a function of the material it was made from and the size of the coin. The lowest value coins were made from bronze; the next lowest were made from silver; and the most valuable were made from gold. Among coins made from the same metal, those which were bigger were more valuable. This explains the size and look of different British coins.
- kd5bjo 6y ago
  This explanation works for US dimes, quarters, and half-dollars as well (plus the old, giant, dollar coins). At one point I worked out that they’re all $20/lb.

ChrisRR 6y ago

I've never seen a UK school teach cursive, only joined-up writing.