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Decertifying a self driving car does nothing considering that today the driver is legally 100% responsible for the driving. Regardless of how manufacturers sell

Decertifying a self driving car does nothing considering that today the driver is legally 100% responsible for the driving. Regardless of how manufacturers sell their "fully self driving cars", they are all still a "hotdog/not hotdog" type intelligence and the tech is there just to assist the driver, not replace. I don't believe we'll solve autonomous driving too soon without adapting the infrastructure to it rather than the other way around. At this rate we'll have truly self driving cars (not "straight line, follow the highway lane self driving") right around the time everyone starts taking most personal cars off the road to replace them with something more efficient that better suits cities of millions. But right now too many people and manufacturers are lying to themselves that self driving cars are right around the corner, and even that they're mostly here. The solution would be to fix the disinformation surrounding self driving tech and fining the hell out of any manufacturer that doesn't make it painfully clear on every channel that the tech is very limited, mentioning also the limits of the system (e.g. types of traffic it was tested on, how many road signs it can recognize out of the total, how much of the regular driving experience do those conditions cover, how well did it do compared to an average human driver). All in "human" language.

rtx 6y ago
Some blame lies with technologists, many a time I have been downvoted right here for suggesting autonomous driving is not round the corner. As someone who only sells products using ML, I find the discussion here inorganic.
- antonyh 6y ago
  agree - some blame lies with technologists. Maybe most of the blame. But consider this: If a human had the same problem, who would be blamed? If several humans, then the road would be changed, just like this. The process seems sound, but maybe the changes that make it more human-friendly make it more machine-hostile. New thinking is needed on how we retrain machines after the change, as it necessitates uniformity - the machine would benefit with fewer variations in cattle grids for example. I reckon a simple change to the road markings for all cattle grids would be enough to make them logically identical - be it paint or signs or some other physical indicator.
  - rtx 6y ago
    New infra will be a positive, we will be able replan roads and usage keep pollution in mind. Though I don't think fully autonomous driving will be possible in near future. There are too many edge cases.
mindslight 6y ago
> Decertifying a self driving car does nothing considering that today the driver is legally 100% responsible for the driving. I don't know that this is true in this case. It seems like the problem here is the auto-braking feature kicking on, perhaps disorienting the driver or causing a following car to need to panic brake+swerve. This isn't an instance of a driver becoming inattentive because they expect the computer to act for them. Rather it's an ever-present system erroneously deciding to take control of the car - analagous to a mechanical failure. What could a driver do to avoid this behavior, besides knowing to disable that system ahead of the hazard?
tremon 6y ago
Decertifying a self driving car does nothing considering that today the driver is legally 100% responsible for the driving The owner of the vehicle is also 100% responsible for making sure the vehicle is road-worthy. Decertifying the autonomous-driving feature should probably trigger a manufacturer recall, so the features can be disabled permanently (not just a via software update). Or alternatively, most countries have a periodic vehicle check (like the MOT test in the UK), and having non-certified features enabled could be a reason for failing the test.

rtx 6y ago

Some blame lies with technologists, many a time I have been downvoted right here for suggesting autonomous driving is not round the corner. As someone who only sells products using ML, I find the discussion here inorganic.

antonyh 6y ago
agree - some blame lies with technologists. Maybe most of the blame. But consider this: If a human had the same problem, who would be blamed? If several humans, then the road would be changed, just like this. The process seems sound, but maybe the changes that make it more human-friendly make it more machine-hostile. New thinking is needed on how we retrain machines after the change, as it necessitates uniformity - the machine would benefit with fewer variations in cattle grids for example. I reckon a simple change to the road markings for all cattle grids would be enough to make them logically identical - be it paint or signs or some other physical indicator.
- rtx 6y ago
  New infra will be a positive, we will be able replan roads and usage keep pollution in mind. Though I don't think fully autonomous driving will be possible in near future. There are too many edge cases.

mindslight 6y ago

> Decertifying a self driving car does nothing considering that today the driver is legally 100% responsible for the driving. I don't know that this is true in this case. It seems like the problem here is the auto-braking feature kicking on, perhaps disorienting the driver or causing a following car to need to panic brake+swerve. This isn't an instance of a driver becoming inattentive because they expect the computer to act for them. Rather it's an ever-present system erroneously deciding to take control of the car - analagous to a mechanical failure. What could a driver do to avoid this behavior, besides knowing to disable that system ahead of the hazard?

tremon 6y ago

Decertifying a self driving car does nothing considering that today the driver is legally 100% responsible for the driving The owner of the vehicle is also 100% responsible for making sure the vehicle is road-worthy. Decertifying the autonomous-driving feature should probably trigger a manufacturer recall, so the features can be disabled permanently (not just a via software update). Or alternatively, most countries have a periodic vehicle check (like the MOT test in the UK), and having non-certified features enabled could be a reason for failing the test.