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It’s 2021. Handwriting at scale has no business in the world. Printing letters is a legible way of conveying information if it needs to be. The amount of schoo

It’s 2021. Handwriting at scale has no business in the world. Printing letters is a legible way of conveying information if it needs to be. The amount of school time wasted on prescriptive joined up writing for kids who won’t even be adults until the 2030s is distressing.

celticninja 6y ago
Sometimes we need to write. Just because we have devices that assist us there is no reason not to learn it.
benzoate 6y ago
I don’t disagree with you, but I suspect learning to write single characters accelerates learning to read. Joined up writing is totally bogus and most of the time I encounter it it makes the author harder to understand, not easier.
- jstanley 6y ago
  I think joined-up writing is about making it faster to write, not easier to read.
  - gpderetta 6y ago
    can confirm. My joined-up writing is write-only.
  - KineticLensman 6y ago
    > I think joined-up writing is about making it faster to write... Totally. If I have to record what people said in a meeting, accurately because I want to quote rather than summarise them, joined up writing is invaluable. > ... not easier to read This is the downside. At the end of a meeting where I was responsible for taking minutes, I'd usually check back through my note book to make sure I could actually interpret what I'd written. And in case people say - Why didn't I just record the meeting - there are still places where electronic recording devices are disallowed for security reasons.
jeromenerf 6y ago
Learning to write is a process. Hand writing is a slow and intense step, requiring both intellectual and physical efforts. I would guess the "joined up" part is about "flow" and aesthetics. I am not sure whether the education I received formed the appreciation I have of this process or if it was something universally well thought, but even today, writing helps me thinking. Walking, running, doing handwork too. Moreover, I still find handwriting a thing of beauty, may it be notebooks or artistic calligraphy.
- vkou 6y ago
  I doubt you would find my handwriting a thing of beauty.
zelos 6y ago
UK primary schools have advanced a lot in recent years, but there seems to be a lot of inertia. They still focus heavily on things like cursive and rote learning of multiplication tables. There's a lot of emphasis on things you can test: memorise the names of the continents, but don't waste any time actually explaining what continents are or how they're formed. My kids' teachers' response to the fact that children don't recognise coins any more (because no one carries cash) is not to spend less time teaching about money, but to ask parents to show their kids more coins.
- ogogmad 6y ago
  > rote learning of multiplication tables How can you do maths if you can't multiply single-digit numbers? Doesn't knowing long multiplication help with learning algebra? > don't waste any time actually explaining what continents are Is Europe a continent or is Eurasia? [edit] Quoting Wikipedia: "A continent is one of several large landmasses. Generally identified by convention rather than any strict criteria ..."
  - nicoburns 6y ago
    > How can you do maths if you can't multiply single-digit numbers? Doesn't knowing long multiplication help with learning algebra? I eventually learnt my times tables, but I was always able to multiply in my head quick enough that I didn't really need to. In any case I think the issue is taken with an over-focus on this. The OP is not suggesting that times tables shouldn't be taught at all.
- signal11 6y ago
  > rote learning of multiplication tables I'm curious - doesn't rote learning of multiplication tables make it easier to do a bunch of K-12 (in the UK, Foundation through Sixth Form - I think) math? Also, yes, coins are less important now, but I always thought those problems teach little children how to solve a particular type of knapsack problem, which has learning benefits beyond knowing how to wrangle coins. I'm all for making math more approachable, but not at the cost of producing people who're utterly out of sorts without a calculator. What am I missing?
signal11 6y ago
I'd agree with you, but writing relatively clearly at speed has benefits in some types of exams (that are not multiple choice). It may also help if you choose to enter a profession which still relies on written notes (e.g., law or law enforcement). And digital handwriting hardware is way more accessible now (e.g. iPad and Pencil) so learning how to write more efficiently than printing isn't all useless -- at the very least, you'll probably have an easier time taking notes, say as a student.
- nerdponx 6y ago
  I take written notes all the time in my data science and programming work, as well as at home. It is much easier to take "nonlinear" notes on paper than in any app I have ever tried. Penmanship is a productivity skill for me.
ChrisRR 6y ago
Printing characters is more legible, but takes longer. Hence joined up handwriting.
Angostura 6y ago
My kids are now in secondary school in the UK. I can tell you that the amount of time taken up learning decent joined up writing was pretty minimal. Probably less than than the time saved by not having classes of primary kids faffing about waiting for shitty laptops to boot or struggling while software updates occur in the middle of a lesson. 'Take out your pencils and exercise book' is a remarkably simple process to troubleshoot.
mnl 6y ago
That's your opinion, mine is that yours is extremely uneducated. Besides teaching how to be organized and meticulous and it involving manipulative materials (which happens to be something you should do in education), it being an aide to study any kind of material, and providing you with the essential skills to do Maths by yourself using a pen in the future, either you develop fine motor skills at that age or you won't. It's as simple as that.
mantap 6y ago
I totally disagree. Joined up writing is just more comfortable and has a relaxing cathartic quality. Just think that in East Asian countries they have to learn 1000s of Han characters, I think in the west we can find time to learn our 26.

celticninja 6y ago

Sometimes we need to write. Just because we have devices that assist us there is no reason not to learn it.

benzoate 6y ago

I don’t disagree with you, but I suspect learning to write single characters accelerates learning to read. Joined up writing is totally bogus and most of the time I encounter it it makes the author harder to understand, not easier.

jstanley 6y ago
I think joined-up writing is about making it faster to write, not easier to read.
- gpderetta 6y ago
  can confirm. My joined-up writing is write-only.
- KineticLensman 6y ago
  > I think joined-up writing is about making it faster to write... Totally. If I have to record what people said in a meeting, accurately because I want to quote rather than summarise them, joined up writing is invaluable. > ... not easier to read This is the downside. At the end of a meeting where I was responsible for taking minutes, I'd usually check back through my note book to make sure I could actually interpret what I'd written. And in case people say - Why didn't I just record the meeting - there are still places where electronic recording devices are disallowed for security reasons.

jeromenerf 6y ago

Learning to write is a process. Hand writing is a slow and intense step, requiring both intellectual and physical efforts. I would guess the "joined up" part is about "flow" and aesthetics. I am not sure whether the education I received formed the appreciation I have of this process or if it was something universally well thought, but even today, writing helps me thinking. Walking, running, doing handwork too. Moreover, I still find handwriting a thing of beauty, may it be notebooks or artistic calligraphy.

vkou 6y ago
I doubt you would find my handwriting a thing of beauty.

zelos 6y ago

UK primary schools have advanced a lot in recent years, but there seems to be a lot of inertia. They still focus heavily on things like cursive and rote learning of multiplication tables. There's a lot of emphasis on things you can test: memorise the names of the continents, but don't waste any time actually explaining what continents are or how they're formed. My kids' teachers' response to the fact that children don't recognise coins any more (because no one carries cash) is not to spend less time teaching about money, but to ask parents to show their kids more coins.

ogogmad 6y ago
> rote learning of multiplication tables How can you do maths if you can't multiply single-digit numbers? Doesn't knowing long multiplication help with learning algebra? > don't waste any time actually explaining what continents are Is Europe a continent or is Eurasia? [edit] Quoting Wikipedia: "A continent is one of several large landmasses. Generally identified by convention rather than any strict criteria ..."
- nicoburns 6y ago
  > How can you do maths if you can't multiply single-digit numbers? Doesn't knowing long multiplication help with learning algebra? I eventually learnt my times tables, but I was always able to multiply in my head quick enough that I didn't really need to. In any case I think the issue is taken with an over-focus on this. The OP is not suggesting that times tables shouldn't be taught at all.
signal11 6y ago
> rote learning of multiplication tables I'm curious - doesn't rote learning of multiplication tables make it easier to do a bunch of K-12 (in the UK, Foundation through Sixth Form - I think) math? Also, yes, coins are less important now, but I always thought those problems teach little children how to solve a particular type of knapsack problem, which has learning benefits beyond knowing how to wrangle coins. I'm all for making math more approachable, but not at the cost of producing people who're utterly out of sorts without a calculator. What am I missing?

signal11 6y ago

I'd agree with you, but writing relatively clearly at speed has benefits in some types of exams (that are not multiple choice). It may also help if you choose to enter a profession which still relies on written notes (e.g., law or law enforcement). And digital handwriting hardware is way more accessible now (e.g. iPad and Pencil) so learning how to write more efficiently than printing isn't all useless -- at the very least, you'll probably have an easier time taking notes, say as a student.

nerdponx 6y ago
I take written notes all the time in my data science and programming work, as well as at home. It is much easier to take "nonlinear" notes on paper than in any app I have ever tried. Penmanship is a productivity skill for me.

ChrisRR 6y ago

Printing characters is more legible, but takes longer. Hence joined up handwriting.

Angostura 6y ago

My kids are now in secondary school in the UK. I can tell you that the amount of time taken up learning decent joined up writing was pretty minimal. Probably less than than the time saved by not having classes of primary kids faffing about waiting for shitty laptops to boot or struggling while software updates occur in the middle of a lesson. 'Take out your pencils and exercise book' is a remarkably simple process to troubleshoot.

mnl 6y ago

That's your opinion, mine is that yours is extremely uneducated. Besides teaching how to be organized and meticulous and it involving manipulative materials (which happens to be something you should do in education), it being an aide to study any kind of material, and providing you with the essential skills to do Maths by yourself using a pen in the future, either you develop fine motor skills at that age or you won't. It's as simple as that.

mantap 6y ago

I totally disagree. Joined up writing is just more comfortable and has a relaxing cathartic quality. Just think that in East Asian countries they have to learn 1000s of Han characters, I think in the west we can find time to learn our 26.