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>Whether or not forgiveness is right is a complicated topic I do not want to get in here. Seems rather important though? >But since forgiveness is generally c

>Whether or not forgiveness is right is a complicated topic I do not want to get in here. Seems rather important though? >But since forgiveness is generally considered a virtue By the medieval European state religion centered on maximum productivity of the serfs (which is also why suicide is a grave sin, not mentioned in the Bible). Forgiveness, karma and other concepts were introduced into state religions because it makes your sovereign's life easier, not yours.

eyelidlessness 6y ago
> Forgiveness, karma Oh, I seldom give myself the permission to “well, actually” on the subject of karma. But here we are. Karma is widely understood in cultures that don’t have a prominent internal representation of it to mean something on the range of “you get what you deserve” to “you get what you put into the world”. But it doesn’t. Karma means “deed”. As in, any action performed. Its philosophical role is that any action is a cause and has effects. When applied religiously, the idea is not that one’s actions and consequences are correlated, and not that one can use good deeds to cancel bad. The idea is that one’s actions have an effect on the world. Sometimes bad actions have negative consequences for the actor. Sometimes the bad actor learns from those consequences. Sometimes other people feel the consequences. Sometimes the bad actor learns anyway. Sometimes [all of the above substituting “good” for “bad”]. Sometimes actions are complicated and have unpredictable effects. The reason karma is philosophically important isn’t to control behavior but to provide a lens to reflect on it.
- s1artibartfast 6y ago
  More akin to “what goes around comes around”
  - eyelidlessness 6y ago
    Except that’s still twisting it. A more accurate representation is “what goes around goes around”.
    - s1artibartfast 6y ago
      Fair enough, it might not come back to you. What people collectively put out into the world is what is collectively experienced in the world. In my opinion, it is about taking personal ownership for your individual contribution to the collective experience, which you in turn will stochastically experience a subset of.
- jojobas 6y ago
  >Rebirth, as stated by various Buddhist traditions, is determined by karma, with good realms favored by Kushala (good karma), while a rebirth in evil realms is a consequence of Akushala (bad karma). Still an "afterlife supernatural justice" concept. Something else with get the bad guy, go back to your rice field.

eyelidlessness 6y ago

> Forgiveness, karma Oh, I seldom give myself the permission to “well, actually” on the subject of karma. But here we are. Karma is widely understood in cultures that don’t have a prominent internal representation of it to mean something on the range of “you get what you deserve” to “you get what you put into the world”. But it doesn’t. Karma means “deed”. As in, any action performed. Its philosophical role is that any action is a cause and has effects. When applied religiously, the idea is not that one’s actions and consequences are correlated, and not that one can use good deeds to cancel bad. The idea is that one’s actions have an effect on the world. Sometimes bad actions have negative consequences for the actor. Sometimes the bad actor learns from those consequences. Sometimes other people feel the consequences. Sometimes the bad actor learns anyway. Sometimes [all of the above substituting “good” for “bad”]. Sometimes actions are complicated and have unpredictable effects. The reason karma is philosophically important isn’t to control behavior but to provide a lens to reflect on it.

s1artibartfast 6y ago
More akin to “what goes around comes around”
- eyelidlessness 6y ago
  Except that’s still twisting it. A more accurate representation is “what goes around goes around”.
  - s1artibartfast 6y ago
    Fair enough, it might not come back to you. What people collectively put out into the world is what is collectively experienced in the world. In my opinion, it is about taking personal ownership for your individual contribution to the collective experience, which you in turn will stochastically experience a subset of.
jojobas 6y ago
>Rebirth, as stated by various Buddhist traditions, is determined by karma, with good realms favored by Kushala (good karma), while a rebirth in evil realms is a consequence of Akushala (bad karma). Still an "afterlife supernatural justice" concept. Something else with get the bad guy, go back to your rice field.