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Can you point me to a source on how Giuliani "meaningfully facilitated illegal insurrection against a peaceful transition"? I can't name democrats who facilita

Can you point me to a source on how Giuliani "meaningfully facilitated illegal insurrection against a peaceful transition"? I can't name democrats who facilitated ilegal insurrection in regards to this past election, but I can name democrats who facilitated illegal insurrection against their own communities after the George Floyd incident. The democrats who refused to call out rioting and looting (as a separate incident from the peaceful protesting), those who called for the short-sighted defunding of police departments in cities with high crime (look up the uptick in shootings and murder in NYC after the city removed $1 billion from the police department) have meaningfully facilitated illegal insurrection in their own communities, in my opinion. I agree that Bannon does make egregious comments, but I tend to think the media blows his comments out of proportion. Due to his military background, he often uses war analogies, which make for the detestable quotes you mention. For example, in the Fauci "head-on-a-pike" comment that he made, it was clear to me that he was not suggesting for folks to literally murder Fauci. He was suggesting for an example to be made out of Fauci by removing him from power. It's similar to when athletes say they want to "kill" the opposing teams. Regardless of this, I agree with you that comments such as the one I mentioned are in bad taste. On the other hand, left-leaning celebrities who posted picture depicting Trunp's dead body (e.g. Snoop Dogg) did not seem to face similar consequences from big tech.

modo_mario 6y ago
> those who called for the short-sighted defunding of police departments in cities with high crime (look up the uptick in shootings and murder in NYC after the city removed $1 billion from the police department) This is facilitating illegal insurrection? And NYC is your example... Surely this could have nothing to do with covid and the whatever else but a 112% increase in shootings must be the consequence of a budget cut of a bit more than 1%.... Have you perhaps considered who it is that is registering this uptick in crime and drawing the connections? Why it was the insanely high to begin with. Like what? Do their janitors earn a million yearly? Not having a slightly less mindblowing budget is not meaningfully facilitating illegal insurrection it's slightly more sane fiscal policy
- berneezy3 6y ago
  It’s a good point, NYPD defunding itself can’t be tied directly to insurrection, but certain factions of the movement can be, as I detail in another response in the parent thread. To me, the crime is high due to the unfortunate realities of inner city gang culture. Yes, historical factors cannot be ignored, and yes, police misconduct also does exist. Police reform is necessary, but a $1 billion budget cut ignores the reality of urban crime, and seem to cause a greater net amount of deaths, and the victims will unfortunately be mostly black/brown. Listening to a few of the chart-topping, yet violent rap songs should give an unfortunate indication of the current state of gang culture, and why the police provide an imperfect-yet-needed check to gang members. But on the other hand, why would COVID cause an increase in shootings/murder? I could understand if there was an uptick in robberies, but from the data I’ve seen, the uptick is in shooting and murder.
  - kombucha111 6y ago
    And yet heavy policing has not solved those problems. It's almost like you should take care of underlying issues that cause these things (community disinvestment etc etc).
  - modo_mario 6y ago
    >But on the other hand, why would COVID cause an increase in shootings/murder? The related lockdowns and such could play a role. I wasn't putting it forward as the sole factor but to me it seems more likely that this among other things like the police reporting differently because they're mad playing a bigger roll in a bloody 112% increase. That's a whole lot you realise that right? Which brings me back to some of those questions left unanswered: How do you tie a bit more than 1% decrease in budget to a 112% increase in shootings? Do you have any reasonable argument for that? Why do they spend such a ridiculously insane amount per employee, in total or however which way you want to calculate it? Can you justify this given the results?
- mlrtime 6y ago
  "Defund" has broad meaning to all changes that affect NYPD. Including more risk for NYPD officers to try and arrest a violent offender. The topic is complicated, COVID + "Defund" + Other topics increasing crime in NYC.
txru 6y ago
> Giuliani "meaningfully facilitated illegal insurrection against a peaceful transition"? I think it takes a particularly steelman interpretation to see the content of Giuliani's "trial by combat" speech as not insurrectionist. “So let’s have trial by combat! I’m willing to stake my reputation, the president is willing to stake his reputation on the fact that we’re going to find criminality there.” > last summer Sure, there are democrats who turned too much of a blind-eye to violence over the past summer. But I find it fallacious in the extreme to equate reducing a police budget with insurrection. For the particular New York exception, the budget cut to NYPD came to about 10% of the budget, which very closely tracks New York's budget shortfall as a result of the Covid exodus from the city (12% budget shortfall) [0]. > head-on-a-pike “I’d actually like to go back to the old times of Tudor England. I’d put the heads on pikes. I’d put them at the two corners of the White House as a warning to federal bureaucrats,” he explained, as Media Matters for America first reported. “You either get with the program or you’re gone ― time to stop playing games,” Bannon added. “Blow it all up.” “That’s how you win the revolution,” Bannon said. “The revolution wasn’t some sort of garden party. It was a civil war.” Even when one takes that statement as charitably as you do, it doesn't help the level of discourse. > Left leaning celebrities I said upthread, I believe we should be moving corporate moderation etc into a local government due process. IMO the Texas DA (for example) should be able to ask Twitter to moderate a statement like that, and have the moderation heard in court. But Snoop Dogg doesn't hold nuclear codes, or hold the ear of the person who does. [0] https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2020-city-budget-police-defunding/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2020-city-budget-police-d...
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > IMO the Texas DA (for example) should be able to ask Twitter to moderate a statement like that, and have the moderation heard in court. If the content is criminal to knowingly carry, they can. (And not just “ask”, they can notify Twitter and inform them they will file criminal charges otherwise.) If its lawful content, law enforcement at any level has no business getting involved, that’s kind of the point of the First Amendment. But Twitter also isn’t (unless it has a contract in place obligating it to someone) required to carry any content, just because they aren’t legally prohibited from doing so. That’s also what the First Amendment is about.

modo_mario 6y ago

> those who called for the short-sighted defunding of police departments in cities with high crime (look up the uptick in shootings and murder in NYC after the city removed $1 billion from the police department) This is facilitating illegal insurrection? And NYC is your example... Surely this could have nothing to do with covid and the whatever else but a 112% increase in shootings must be the consequence of a budget cut of a bit more than 1%.... Have you perhaps considered who it is that is registering this uptick in crime and drawing the connections? Why it was the insanely high to begin with. Like what? Do their janitors earn a million yearly? Not having a slightly less mindblowing budget is not meaningfully facilitating illegal insurrection it's slightly more sane fiscal policy

berneezy3 6y ago
It’s a good point, NYPD defunding itself can’t be tied directly to insurrection, but certain factions of the movement can be, as I detail in another response in the parent thread. To me, the crime is high due to the unfortunate realities of inner city gang culture. Yes, historical factors cannot be ignored, and yes, police misconduct also does exist. Police reform is necessary, but a $1 billion budget cut ignores the reality of urban crime, and seem to cause a greater net amount of deaths, and the victims will unfortunately be mostly black/brown. Listening to a few of the chart-topping, yet violent rap songs should give an unfortunate indication of the current state of gang culture, and why the police provide an imperfect-yet-needed check to gang members. But on the other hand, why would COVID cause an increase in shootings/murder? I could understand if there was an uptick in robberies, but from the data I’ve seen, the uptick is in shooting and murder.
- kombucha111 6y ago
  And yet heavy policing has not solved those problems. It's almost like you should take care of underlying issues that cause these things (community disinvestment etc etc).
- modo_mario 6y ago
  >But on the other hand, why would COVID cause an increase in shootings/murder? The related lockdowns and such could play a role. I wasn't putting it forward as the sole factor but to me it seems more likely that this among other things like the police reporting differently because they're mad playing a bigger roll in a bloody 112% increase. That's a whole lot you realise that right? Which brings me back to some of those questions left unanswered: How do you tie a bit more than 1% decrease in budget to a 112% increase in shootings? Do you have any reasonable argument for that? Why do they spend such a ridiculously insane amount per employee, in total or however which way you want to calculate it? Can you justify this given the results?
mlrtime 6y ago
"Defund" has broad meaning to all changes that affect NYPD. Including more risk for NYPD officers to try and arrest a violent offender. The topic is complicated, COVID + "Defund" + Other topics increasing crime in NYC.

txru 6y ago

> Giuliani "meaningfully facilitated illegal insurrection against a peaceful transition"? I think it takes a particularly steelman interpretation to see the content of Giuliani's "trial by combat" speech as not insurrectionist. “So let’s have trial by combat! I’m willing to stake my reputation, the president is willing to stake his reputation on the fact that we’re going to find criminality there.” > last summer Sure, there are democrats who turned too much of a blind-eye to violence over the past summer. But I find it fallacious in the extreme to equate reducing a police budget with insurrection. For the particular New York exception, the budget cut to NYPD came to about 10% of the budget, which very closely tracks New York's budget shortfall as a result of the Covid exodus from the city (12% budget shortfall) [0]. > head-on-a-pike “I’d actually like to go back to the old times of Tudor England. I’d put the heads on pikes. I’d put them at the two corners of the White House as a warning to federal bureaucrats,” he explained, as Media Matters for America first reported. “You either get with the program or you’re gone ― time to stop playing games,” Bannon added. “Blow it all up.” “That’s how you win the revolution,” Bannon said. “The revolution wasn’t some sort of garden party. It was a civil war.” Even when one takes that statement as charitably as you do, it doesn't help the level of discourse. > Left leaning celebrities I said upthread, I believe we should be moving corporate moderation etc into a local government due process. IMO the Texas DA (for example) should be able to ask Twitter to moderate a statement like that, and have the moderation heard in court. But Snoop Dogg doesn't hold nuclear codes, or hold the ear of the person who does. [0] https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2020-city-budget-police-defunding/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2020-city-budget-police-d...

dragonwriter 6y ago
> IMO the Texas DA (for example) should be able to ask Twitter to moderate a statement like that, and have the moderation heard in court. If the content is criminal to knowingly carry, they can. (And not just “ask”, they can notify Twitter and inform them they will file criminal charges otherwise.) If its lawful content, law enforcement at any level has no business getting involved, that’s kind of the point of the First Amendment. But Twitter also isn’t (unless it has a contract in place obligating it to someone) required to carry any content, just because they aren’t legally prohibited from doing so. That’s also what the First Amendment is about.