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Skimmed the article. Interesting that they chalk it up to basically just nostalgia. I know many do it because you can be pretty confident that old hardware/soft

Skimmed the article. Interesting that they chalk it up to basically just nostalgia. I know many do it because you can be pretty confident that old hardware/software is much less likely to be phoning home and is actually something you own and control as opposed to being a service that you are licensing and can change functionality at the whim of the company you are getting it from.

pmiller2 6y ago
Really? I don't know of anybody who's into retrocomputing for those reasons. Can you give some examples of people who are into it due to privacy concerns?
- dasyatidprime 6y ago
  Me, but I'm not sure I count because it's more of a theoretical interest than a practical one at present. Past me, however, did things like write an OTP generator for TI-83+ partly on the grounds that it was a non-networked device and simple enough to leave less in the way of interesting ways for malware to hide.
- Shikadi 6y ago
  I'm definitely not into it because of that, but I have considered it as an added practical bonus for sure
npunt 6y ago
That might be the case for mid-2000s computers, but if you're looking at 80s or even 90s stuff, almost nobody is really using them for proper work. They're just too slow and inconvenient, despite being fun!
- selfhoster11 6y ago
  Unless you're a writer who's using WordStar for distraction-free word processing.
  - qayxc 6y ago
    Wouldn't a proper electric typewriter be even better for that use case?
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
perardi 6y ago
Who is managing to do work on a properly old machine? I’m most familiar with old Mac OS machines. Like, before it was called Mac OS. And they are extremely difficult to connect to anything on the contemporary internet, because none of the available browsers have the ability to work with contemporary security certificates.
- yummypaint 6y ago
  This is true, but the "classic" machines do have serial ports which are still interoperable with generic usb-serial converters. I seem to recall rs-422. Should be possible to transfer files that way. For composing plaintext (i.e. Writing a novel) it could be a workable distraction-free setup.
- pjbk 6y ago
  Some of my acquaintances still use Bars'n'Pipes in the Amiga as their main to-go music composing MIDI software, since it's reliable, has a well-designed wide set of tools, and the minimalistic, clutter-free interface helps them stay focused and therefore be more productive.
- justin66 6y ago
  > Who is managing to do work on a properly old machine? George RR Martin still writes novels on a DOS machine with WordStar 4. There are some other holdouts but I imagine for any not-bestselling author there's an intermediate step on a modern machine to convert files to a more modern format.
eplanit 6y ago
Yes, old CPUs/ICs were built on actual solid-state components, with no "firmware". You owned it, and it didn't change or spy on you. I miss it, too.
- qayxc 6y ago
  Nothing to do with the CPU or components - it's simply due to the lack of WAN connectivity. Old computers contained firmware by the way - BASIC and the OS weren't loaded from disk, they were stored on internal ROM. The only reason built-in functionality didn't change, was again just due to the lack of WAN connectivity. You can achieve the same level of privacy today by just not connecting to the internet and using your machine offline only.
  - dasyatidprime 6y ago
    The last part is sort of true, but there's a lot of ways for changing expectations to sneak in. The software often isn't designed for it, so it's hard to model what actions you can take and what you can't before “oops, please connect to the Internet to continue”. And once you've done that a single time, all your previous guarantees are instantly invalidated, because there's going to be a dozen unskippable updates and stuff happening in the background and so on and so on—or you can try to handle that by doing something even more awkward like moving the data off, then factory reset, then updates, then disconnect, then move the data back and hope for the best… That said, this is something I did with a cheap laptop for a while—installed a basic Linux and Emacs and used it as a mostly-isolated Emacsing machine; I believe I never hooked it up to the network again, though I did sketch out some provisions for manually physically disconnecting sensitive filesystems in case I needed to do that very occasionally (while being aware that sufficiently clever malware could still work around this). But then the logic board malfunctioned much sooner than I'd expected, and I haven't been in a position to get another since. And 100% air-gapping is not always desirable. Many 1990s-and-before machines that had networking capabilities were still the epitome of “local first” by comparison to the “deployment is primarily done through progressive Web apps” world of 2021. So you could have a few channels by which to talk to the outside world, but without the outside world getting its hooks deep inside you in the process: the television without the telescreen. (Security issues aside, of course—though some of that is mitigable with restrictive proxying, simpler protocols, etc. depending on how retro and how networked you are trying for.)
Bostonian 6y ago
You could have a modern computer that you don't connect to the Internet or that you do so only sporadically.
- Shikadi 6y ago
  Occasional connections invalidate the air gap since applications can spool data to be sent once the internet connection is back. Especially on windows 10 where the user has very little control or knowledge about what updates are doing. You could of course have two modern computers and use a flash drive to transfer files though

pmiller2 6y ago

Really? I don't know of anybody who's into retrocomputing for those reasons. Can you give some examples of people who are into it due to privacy concerns?

dasyatidprime 6y ago
Me, but I'm not sure I count because it's more of a theoretical interest than a practical one at present. Past me, however, did things like write an OTP generator for TI-83+ partly on the grounds that it was a non-networked device and simple enough to leave less in the way of interesting ways for malware to hide.
Shikadi 6y ago
I'm definitely not into it because of that, but I have considered it as an added practical bonus for sure

npunt 6y ago

That might be the case for mid-2000s computers, but if you're looking at 80s or even 90s stuff, almost nobody is really using them for proper work. They're just too slow and inconvenient, despite being fun!

selfhoster11 6y ago
Unless you're a writer who's using WordStar for distraction-free word processing.
- qayxc 6y ago
  Wouldn't a proper electric typewriter be even better for that use case?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

perardi 6y ago

Who is managing to do work on a properly old machine? I’m most familiar with old Mac OS machines. Like, before it was called Mac OS. And they are extremely difficult to connect to anything on the contemporary internet, because none of the available browsers have the ability to work with contemporary security certificates.

yummypaint 6y ago
This is true, but the "classic" machines do have serial ports which are still interoperable with generic usb-serial converters. I seem to recall rs-422. Should be possible to transfer files that way. For composing plaintext (i.e. Writing a novel) it could be a workable distraction-free setup.
pjbk 6y ago
Some of my acquaintances still use Bars'n'Pipes in the Amiga as their main to-go music composing MIDI software, since it's reliable, has a well-designed wide set of tools, and the minimalistic, clutter-free interface helps them stay focused and therefore be more productive.
justin66 6y ago
> Who is managing to do work on a properly old machine? George RR Martin still writes novels on a DOS machine with WordStar 4. There are some other holdouts but I imagine for any not-bestselling author there's an intermediate step on a modern machine to convert files to a more modern format.

eplanit 6y ago

Yes, old CPUs/ICs were built on actual solid-state components, with no "firmware". You owned it, and it didn't change or spy on you. I miss it, too.

qayxc 6y ago
Nothing to do with the CPU or components - it's simply due to the lack of WAN connectivity. Old computers contained firmware by the way - BASIC and the OS weren't loaded from disk, they were stored on internal ROM. The only reason built-in functionality didn't change, was again just due to the lack of WAN connectivity. You can achieve the same level of privacy today by just not connecting to the internet and using your machine offline only.
- dasyatidprime 6y ago
  The last part is sort of true, but there's a lot of ways for changing expectations to sneak in. The software often isn't designed for it, so it's hard to model what actions you can take and what you can't before “oops, please connect to the Internet to continue”. And once you've done that a single time, all your previous guarantees are instantly invalidated, because there's going to be a dozen unskippable updates and stuff happening in the background and so on and so on—or you can try to handle that by doing something even more awkward like moving the data off, then factory reset, then updates, then disconnect, then move the data back and hope for the best… That said, this is something I did with a cheap laptop for a while—installed a basic Linux and Emacs and used it as a mostly-isolated Emacsing machine; I believe I never hooked it up to the network again, though I did sketch out some provisions for manually physically disconnecting sensitive filesystems in case I needed to do that very occasionally (while being aware that sufficiently clever malware could still work around this). But then the logic board malfunctioned much sooner than I'd expected, and I haven't been in a position to get another since. And 100% air-gapping is not always desirable. Many 1990s-and-before machines that had networking capabilities were still the epitome of “local first” by comparison to the “deployment is primarily done through progressive Web apps” world of 2021. So you could have a few channels by which to talk to the outside world, but without the outside world getting its hooks deep inside you in the process: the television without the telescreen. (Security issues aside, of course—though some of that is mitigable with restrictive proxying, simpler protocols, etc. depending on how retro and how networked you are trying for.)

Bostonian 6y ago

You could have a modern computer that you don't connect to the Internet or that you do so only sporadically.

Shikadi 6y ago
Occasional connections invalidate the air gap since applications can spool data to be sent once the internet connection is back. Especially on windows 10 where the user has very little control or knowledge about what updates are doing. You could of course have two modern computers and use a flash drive to transfer files though