6 ms·

These are opinions though. It may be untrue, but you're going to find yourself with a ministry of truth. "Who decides" who gets charged with the crime. These op

These are opinions though. It may be untrue, but you're going to find yourself with a ministry of truth. "Who decides" who gets charged with the crime. These opinions can be entertained. After all, most trump supporters are clearly enraged by democrats.

scsilver 6y ago
There is no ministry being erected, just a bunch of private parties not willing to get dragged into the mud.
- laretluval 6y ago
  No official ministry, but the private parties appear to be acting with a great deal of coordination.
  - grzm 6y ago
    When a hurricane hits the coast, you'll find that a lot of people happen to board up their windows as well. A common set of pressures can provoke the same response from different people working independently. No coordination needed.
  - justforyou 6y ago
    Zeitgeist is not coordinated.
  - anigbrowl 6y ago
    Google round earth conspiracy
  - pmiller2 6y ago
    Those are some serious charges you're levelling. I'm assuming you have proof, yeah?
  - MrMan 6y ago
    I really do think they have been visited by the FBI, who has warned them not to implicate themselves in ongoing plots to kill more people.
  - scsilver 6y ago
    Really? Whats the evidence?
- notadev 6y ago
  So we've outsourced the parts the government can't do to companies who are essentially shadow actors doing their censorship all while everyone rushes to reply with the "censorship only applies to government" line.
  - undersuit 6y ago
    Well the free market is more efficient. /s But not /s because I'm actually mocking people and dang should censor me(Don't do it this time though dang).
katbyte 6y ago
Opinions stated as facts are no longer “just an opinion”
- brighton36 6y ago
  It would really help if there were ages attached to our profiles. I'm starting to think there's a generational component to these values. Not that younger or older is better. I'd, just like to know why this became such a disconnect in the population, all of a sudden...
SoSoRoCoCo 6y ago
> These are opinions though Help me out here, Hacker News. This guy thinks: "Democrats attacked the capital", is an opinion. How do we even talk to this person?
- Jtsummers 6y ago
  You can't. People making absurdist statements like that and claiming them as "opinions" when someone rebuts them are the principle reason I stopped looking at social media sites (and I barely looked at it before then). If someone says, "The sun didn't rise today" and everyone else points out the sun in the sky, and their reply is "Well, that's, like, your opinion, man", it's safe to ignore them. Don't engage because they have tacitly admitted to being an unreasonable, delusional individual.
  - bryan_w 6y ago
    > it's safe to ignore them. Don't engage because they have tacitly admitted to being an unreasonable, delusional individual. We saw last Wednesday that it's no longer safe to ignore them.
- drogon2020 6y ago
  Who claimed democrats attacked the capitol?
- brighton36 6y ago
  Maybe you would benefit from looking up the definition of opinion...
  - SoSoRoCoCo 6y ago
    Ok, I did. Explain to me where it says anything about lying is an opinion: https://bit.ly/39nLiwz https://bit.ly/39nLiwz
- dane-pgp 6y ago
  "Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. "They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past." -- Jean-Paul Sartre
hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
Guiliani said: "Believe me, Trump people were not scaling the wall. So there's nothing to it that he incited anything." That's not an opinion, it's a statement of fact whose truth can be evaluated. About the only thing that is even slightly ambiguous is how you define "Trump people", but given that essentially every person that has been identified in the insurrection has been shown to have documented pro-Trump views, what else would you call them? So what about this statement isn't provably false to you?
- erulabs 6y ago
  Thank you for the vital context. “Democrats are to blame” -is- an opinion, but “No one who scaled the walls of the capital was a Trump supporter” is a statement of fact which can be disproven trivially (literally hundreds of photos of the hats and the shirts and the flags on the people scaling the walls). The lack of -context- irks me far more than any other issue here - particularly when the context is so damning. I’m always more frustrated with those with facts on their side when they fail to argue properly than with those who are wrong. Being wrong is easy - the burden of argument is on the intelligent - not the slow witted.
  - DangitBobby 6y ago
    I believe you've misinterpreted Guliani's words. He is not claiming that they were not Trump supporters, he is saying that they did not scale the walls. By which he means that they did not have to sneak or break in because no one really even tried to stop them. That sentiment seems true on its face. Now whether the blame for that can be placed on Democrats is an entirely separate matter.
    - erulabs 6y ago
      Erm, here is a photo of people wearing Trump gear scaling walls. https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/16/03/72/20463283/3/ratio3x2_1000.jpg https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/16/03/72/20463283/3/ratio3x2_1...
    - hn_throwaway_99 6y ago

scsilver 6y ago

There is no ministry being erected, just a bunch of private parties not willing to get dragged into the mud.

laretluval 6y ago
No official ministry, but the private parties appear to be acting with a great deal of coordination.
- grzm 6y ago
  When a hurricane hits the coast, you'll find that a lot of people happen to board up their windows as well. A common set of pressures can provoke the same response from different people working independently. No coordination needed.
- justforyou 6y ago
  Zeitgeist is not coordinated.
- anigbrowl 6y ago
  Google round earth conspiracy
- pmiller2 6y ago
  Those are some serious charges you're levelling. I'm assuming you have proof, yeah?
- MrMan 6y ago
  I really do think they have been visited by the FBI, who has warned them not to implicate themselves in ongoing plots to kill more people.
- scsilver 6y ago
  Really? Whats the evidence?
notadev 6y ago
So we've outsourced the parts the government can't do to companies who are essentially shadow actors doing their censorship all while everyone rushes to reply with the "censorship only applies to government" line.
- undersuit 6y ago
  Well the free market is more efficient. /s But not /s because I'm actually mocking people and dang should censor me(Don't do it this time though dang).

katbyte 6y ago

Opinions stated as facts are no longer “just an opinion”

brighton36 6y ago
It would really help if there were ages attached to our profiles. I'm starting to think there's a generational component to these values. Not that younger or older is better. I'd, just like to know why this became such a disconnect in the population, all of a sudden...

SoSoRoCoCo 6y ago

> These are opinions though Help me out here, Hacker News. This guy thinks: "Democrats attacked the capital", is an opinion. How do we even talk to this person?

Jtsummers 6y ago
You can't. People making absurdist statements like that and claiming them as "opinions" when someone rebuts them are the principle reason I stopped looking at social media sites (and I barely looked at it before then). If someone says, "The sun didn't rise today" and everyone else points out the sun in the sky, and their reply is "Well, that's, like, your opinion, man", it's safe to ignore them. Don't engage because they have tacitly admitted to being an unreasonable, delusional individual.
- bryan_w 6y ago
  > it's safe to ignore them. Don't engage because they have tacitly admitted to being an unreasonable, delusional individual. We saw last Wednesday that it's no longer safe to ignore them.
drogon2020 6y ago
Who claimed democrats attacked the capitol?
brighton36 6y ago
Maybe you would benefit from looking up the definition of opinion...
- SoSoRoCoCo 6y ago
  Ok, I did. Explain to me where it says anything about lying is an opinion: https://bit.ly/39nLiwz https://bit.ly/39nLiwz
dane-pgp 6y ago
"Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. "They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past." -- Jean-Paul Sartre

hn_throwaway_99 6y ago

Guiliani said: "Believe me, Trump people were not scaling the wall. So there's nothing to it that he incited anything." That's not an opinion, it's a statement of fact whose truth can be evaluated. About the only thing that is even slightly ambiguous is how you define "Trump people", but given that essentially every person that has been identified in the insurrection has been shown to have documented pro-Trump views, what else would you call them? So what about this statement isn't provably false to you?

erulabs 6y ago
Thank you for the vital context. “Democrats are to blame” -is- an opinion, but “No one who scaled the walls of the capital was a Trump supporter” is a statement of fact which can be disproven trivially (literally hundreds of photos of the hats and the shirts and the flags on the people scaling the walls). The lack of -context- irks me far more than any other issue here - particularly when the context is so damning. I’m always more frustrated with those with facts on their side when they fail to argue properly than with those who are wrong. Being wrong is easy - the burden of argument is on the intelligent - not the slow witted.
- DangitBobby 6y ago
  I believe you've misinterpreted Guliani's words. He is not claiming that they were not Trump supporters, he is saying that they did not scale the walls. By which he means that they did not have to sneak or break in because no one really even tried to stop them. That sentiment seems true on its face. Now whether the blame for that can be placed on Democrats is an entirely separate matter.
  - erulabs 6y ago
    Erm, here is a photo of people wearing Trump gear scaling walls. https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/16/03/72/20463283/3/ratio3x2_1000.jpg https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/16/03/72/20463283/3/ratio3x2_1...
  - hn_throwaway_99 6y ago