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Addressing the threat from investments that finance CCP military (2020)
- copperwater69 6y agoI hope these are things which remain in place when Biden gets in, and aren't bargaining chips for low hanging fruit.
- ksd482 6y agoI hope the same.
- mhh__ 6y ago> I hope these are things which remain in place when Biden gets in, I don't really see why they wouldn't be, where is the pro-china coalition in politics at the moment? On top of that, the idea that because Biden didn't go around saying "China!" in an amusing fashion doesn't mean he's best buddies with Xi Jinping.
- lettergram 6y agoYou must not have seen the active investigations into the Biden family... for securities fraud. They took money directly from the Chinese (billions to start a company and millions in a “forgivable, interest free loan”) Attorney general of Delaware: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/12/10/what-is-known-about-the-hunter-biden-investigation https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/12/10/what-is-known-abou... Family business associate: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v4NcaxJifxY&feature=youtu.be https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v4NcaxJifxY&feature=youtu.be Senate report: https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/HSGAC_Finance_Report_FINAL.pdf https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/HSGAC_Finance_Rep...
- epmaybe 6y agohttps://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-06-26/everything-everywhere-is-securities-fraud https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-06-26/everyt...
- mhh__ 6y ago[Citation needed]? edit: you have provided a citation now - Tucker Carlson..., but is that it? So there's no evidence of any services being rendered, or anything even close to a smoking gun other than proof that Beau was the better Biden?
- mhh__ 6y ago> Senate report: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=hunter+biden+laptop+senate+report& https://duckduckgo.com/?q=hunter+biden+laptop+senate+report&... Top result for me https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/09/28/hunter-biden-senate-report/ https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/09/28/hunter-biden-senate-r... Very loudly states The report presents no evidence of wrongdoing by Joe Biden, and omits testimony that exculpates him
- lettergram 6y agoApologies trying to add citations. You can actually find an archive dump of the laptop on the internet yourself (there’s emails, photos, etc). I linked to the actual full senate report. See below: https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/HSGAC_Finance_Report_FINAL.pdf https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/HSGAC_Finance_Rep... Most of the videos about this have been scrubbed / are not searchable on Google or YouTube. DuckDuckGo will let you search some stuff. The laptop doesn’t directly link Joe Biden. However, Joe Biden did use airforce two to fly himself and son to China. Shortly after Hunter closed a deal with China. https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/06/29/secret-service-provided-hunter-biden-protection-on-more-than-400-flights/ https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/06/29/secret-service... Joe Biden’s brother James is also under investigation. Brother: https://thefederalist.com/2020/12/22/while-the-spotlight-shines-on-hunter-biden-james-biden-is-also-under-investigation/ https://thefederalist.com/2020/12/22/while-the-spotlight-shi...
- seppin 6y agoAren't you tired of this?
- redis_mlc 6y agoThere's a loophole in US law that a family member can receive bribes, in this case $1 billion from the CCP and Ukraine, which is what Hunter did while Joe was VP. However, obviously corruption is corruption. Hunter has no useful skills, so what possible reason would the CCP even talk to him, let alone give him $1 billion, aside from influencing Joe?
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- garmaine 6y agoTrunk derangement syndrome. Anything he touches must automatically be reversed.
- garmaine 6y agoHrm, I can’t seem to edit this for some reason. I’m not being conspiratorial, although upon rereading I could see someone make that assumption. What I mean is that Trump is so hated that reversing his policies score political wins, regardless of the actual policy—much like how Obama was treated by the radical right. Trump has taken a harder line than previous presidents on China, although to be sure he has done a shit job of it if he actually wanted to stress the CCP. Any liberal politician can expect sweet lobbying on behalf of China-friendly interests, and score political points by reversing Trump’s China policies. Win-win for anyone that doesn’t actually care about the freedoms of the Chinese people. Similar things can be said about other Trump policies that are actually good, like the NASA Artemis project and Space Force. Expect them to get severely defunded under a Biden administration, even though they are actually good bipartisan policies prior to Trump. I’m NOT a trump supporter. But I evaluate his and any other politician’s policies on a case by case basis. I hope that Biden does the same, but I’m not naïve enough to expect it.
- vmception 6y agoThere is an objective view to be had about the accuracy of criticisms of any particular political party, because some of them do have some element of truth. But we are passed the point of objectivity in what may be the first battle in a civil war. There were casualties and there are plots of a second attack. So at this point you just have to choose sides and consider that your ability to retain support amongst your peers means not using the phrases that "the other side" created. The disclaimers about your affiliations won't help. I'm just the messenger.
- garmaine 6y agoUsing scare tactics to force someone to “choose sides” is not the hallmarks of a classical liberal philosophy. Please stop escalating things with hyperbole.
- fat_pikachu 6y agoThey wouldn't be rushing out these executive orders now if there was any faith the Biden administration would implement them given the chance.
- mhh__ 6y agoAre they being rushed out? What is the play with Biden and China? It makes no sense to any part of his base, and it just reeks of koolaid-drinking.
- fat_pikachu 6y agoDo you think we'd see a flurry of executive action this month on China policy in the alternate universe where Trump has a second term. > What is the play with Biden and China? There's nothing underhanded going on between Biden and China, at least not in my mind. But Biden campaigned on returning to the status quo, meaning little action on China. They're implementing these EOs now because they think he won't undo them, but he won't pass them either if given the choice.
- bostonsre 6y agoI kind of think it might be a good thing that they are rushing them out. It allows Biden to appear more moderate and it gives him more bargaining power to work with after the transition. Appeasement hasn't worked. I would be terrified to be a citizen in a country anywhere near China right now, countries in the region are slowly getting muscled and beaten back. I feel horrible for Hong Kong and Taiwan is next unless we can back them up. Hopefully a little good comes out of the cluster f of drama in the Whitehouse.
- free_rms 6y agoThere's a very large pro-money coalition in politics at all moments. People who stand to make money off of business with China will always win against people who don't stand to lose money by curtailing it. It's a matter of commitment.
- rasengan 6y agoBiden and his son have very strong, secretive relations with China.
- brown9-2 6y agoso secretive that random message board commenters know about them?
- mhh__ 6y agoThere's [insert conspiracy], (usually) even the President doesn't know, but I've figured it out!
- 737min 6y agoThat claim has very little evidence. And the imcoming administration has been very clear om China being the #1 adversary already.
- dionian 6y agowhy would fbi be investigating if no evidence?
- elefanten 6y agoBecause of the "I" in the acronym. It's their job.
- dang 6y agoIt looks like you've been using HN primarily for political battle. Can you please not do that? It's against the rules (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html) and it's the line across which we start banning accounts (https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=primarily%20test%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...), regardless of which politics they're battling for. This is because it destroys what HN is supposed to exist for, which is curious conversation on a wide range of topics.
- mmaunder 6y agoFlagged in 3...2...1
- mabbo 6y agoCan someone explain the effect of this?
- amb23 6y agoWSJ has an article on this too: https://www.wsj.com/articles/trumps-ban-on-chinese-stocks-roils-investors-11610274600?mod=hp_lead_pos2 https://www.wsj.com/articles/trumps-ban-on-chinese-stocks-ro... > "The order, which takes effect Monday, bans Americans from trading the securities of dozens of Chinese companies... The order initially applied to 31 companies and has since grown to 35. Many are private firms with little connection to Wall Street, but a few have American depositary receipts listed on the NYSE. These include three large Chinese telecom carriers, as well as oil-and-gas driller Cnooc Ltd. , which was added to the blacklist in December."
- 737min 6y agoHN readers would be well advised to ask the question of how they should adjust things in their teams & companies going fo to avoid both the legal liability and the ethical stain of CCP
- free_rms 6y agoAll economic activity in a nation is going to benefit the government in some way. Is this a call for full cuba-level embargo of the nation of China, or what here?
- colechristensen 6y agoDon’t put yourself or your company in a position where China would influence your ability to make the right decision. That doesn’t require an embargo, but some companies maybe are best served by abstinence.
- Roritharr 6y agoThis seems kind of naive for many industries at the moment as for the most part it would translate to "Don't do cost-effective manufacturing".
- colechristensen 6y agoChina isn’t the cheapest manufacturer any more and there are large costs in offshoring manufacturing anyway (essentially having to overmanage to get the desired outcome) so there is an increasing trend of returning manufacturing jobs to rich countries. But also yes, directly, don’t let a difference in cost compromise your moral compass. Slavery is also cost effective, would you argue for that too? (of course that is indeed one of the issues of doing business in china too)
- Roritharr 6y agoIf you are a large multinational you can have those considerations, but as a startup you have to take the ecosystem as it currently is, which means most of the manufacturing know-how is currently based in China. There are simply lots of processes which can only be bought for prototype quantities in most western countries. If you try to scale those it's just outside of your budget to do anything but go to China with it.
- kumarski 6y agotldr: the amount of foreign capital allowed into US assets and of CCP companies on the US stock exchanges is problematic. I've placed my bet on the CCP. This is a massive problem. SoftBank is CCP money. HR2513 Illicit Cash Act Equitable Act All 3 of these facilitate sketchy securities investments from offshore entities. My operating investment thesis: I bought and HODL'd TSLA at $362 with as much margin as was allowed with this thesis. Musk is an intellectually dishonest figure, but it doesn't matter, money matters. Every time the CCP pumps the US asset class, it forces other central banks to print more via pump and dump cycles. Each cycle is worth a lot in terms of transferring wealth to the CCP. This number can be trillions at some point. TSLA has onshore assets in China. I'll be closely monitoring digitization of RMB/Yuan as well as China's trade surplus, if the trade surplus drops by a lot, then the CCP's thirst for USD will go up. From a security standpoint, I've been told that the maritime industry is rife with gaping security holes. Still reading into it though.
- im3w1l 6y ago> Every time the CCP pumps the US asset class, it forces other central banks to print more via pump and dump cycles. > Each cycle is worth a lot in terms of transferring wealth to the CCP. I don't understand at all what you are saying. Which asset class is the CCP buying? Why are central banks forced to print more? How does this transfer wealth to CCP?
- thoughtstheseus 6y agoLast I checked foreigners owned ~40% of U.S. stocks. It’s a strength and a risk. Asset pricing going up magnifies both. In a similar vain, there’s a reason why the RMB is not a major contender to the dollar yet. It’s more strategic to gain an increasing percentage of world trade and influence, then “flip the switch” and request/require/demand RMB over dollars. Look at bond yields in China, they’re every fixed income managers dream. They have a positive, meaningful yield and are very safe.
- antattack 6y ago“Communist Chinese military company” Straight from the office of Ministry of Truth. Among them, Huawei - we all know - but This time Hikvision made the list as well. Frankly, I actually do support not buying Hikvision cameras or any other device that is cloud based that phones home your location and activity.
- unwoundmouse 6y agoI have to ask, why would Trump make the time to do this with only a few days remaining in office? The only conclusion I come to based off an understanding of his persona is that he is doing insider trading
- peteretep 6y agoI don’t think Trump gives a shit, but there are some crusaders in the administration like Pompeo who are trying to get a controversial agenda through in the end days of the admin.
- dannyw 6y agoOr how about Trump legitimately believes China to be a serious risk to US interests?
- croissants 6y agoThe page says that the executive order dates to November 17th, so about 2 months before his term ends.
- vmception 6y agoHe did it in November. Read the order, it makes pretty clear points. Your conclusion could be made about any time period, if thats what you have already decided on, as if it can be a singular motivation. When you reach a certain place in society you get to trade on material non-public information before the rest of the market, moving on.
- djsumdog 6y agoIt's a very important thing to do. It's been a long standing problem. The CCP is a harsh and restrictive government and we don't want to be funding advancements in their military. This may affect supply chains for civilian supply chains, and then China's corops and government will have to make a choice: Keep contracts to make tons of consumer goods or continue to supply the military side.
- sbinthree 6y agoIf people find this interesting, consider reading the PLA document called 'Unrestriced Warfare'. Pretty terrifying, these measures don't come out of no where.
- eunos 6y agoI consider that similar to Dugin's "Foundation of Geopolitics" conspiracy.
- scribu 6y agoWhy do you call it a conspiracy?
- eunos 6y agoI am not in the field of Geopolitics, so I only heard opinions from Twitter or Quora mostly. Apparently lots of people over there perceived that Dugin's influence to Putin was over inflated. Especially after Trump was elected along with Russian interference scandal. Putin as an ex-spook was perceived as a kind of short sighted yet dynamic instead of formulating and following a long term static grand strategy as Dugin suggest.
- toxik 6y agoWhich is hilarious, because it's like a Trojan propaganda piece. Pretend like it's a secret playbook, "oops, you weren't supposed to see our totally secret plan for world domination!!!"
- mhh__ 6y ago> "oops, you weren't supposed to see our totally secret plan for world domination!!!" Even though it's blindly obvious what their playbook would be if they could make their dreams come true?
- SkyMarshal 6y agoFwiw the Wikipedia page for this book includes an external link to the full text at Citeseer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unrestricted_Warfare#External_links https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unrestricted_Warfare#External_...
- wombatmobile 6y agoIf China has been "developing and deploying weapons of mass destruction", and has "directly threatened the United States homeland", why is America's response limited to mere financial regulation?
- peteretep 6y agoWhat are the realistic alternatives?
- djsumdog 6y agoThe US has used sanctions on Iran, Cuba and countless others. You can argue their effectiveness, and how they may just hurt the country's citizens.. but this has been a long standing problem. It's something Trump can do that might slow China growing their military presence. We are talking about a country with very restrictive freedom of speech laws and who reeducate certain ethnic minorities. I wonder if this will affect civilian supply chains as well? Will some governments and their corporate counterparts be forced to decide if they want to supply consumer goods or build their military instead? I'm sure China could eventually create shell companies to move some resources, but it would slow down military growth. It would also be something Biden would be foolish to try and undo, because it would give the impression of special interests in China. After the Swalwell allegations, it would provide a good check.
- michaelgiba 6y agoMaybe I’m missing it, but why is this trending now? The EO was in November
- grzm 6y agoShort answer: someone came across the piece and submitted it. Speculation: people are paying a lot of attention to what's happening at the White House right now. From some of the comments, there's also some misunderstanding of when this happened, and may think it's something the administration is trying to get in under the wire in the last 10 days (even though that's not the case).
- COGlory 6y agoComes into effect tomorrow (Monday, January 11th)
- dalacv 6y agobeginning 9:30 a.m. eastern standard time on January 11, 2021, any transaction in publicly traded securities, or any securities that are derivative of, or are designed to provide investment exposure to such securities, of any Communist Chinese military company as defined in section 4(a)(i) of this order, by any United States person; and
- mhh__ 6y agoI assume you aren't allowed to name names but at least one person is trying to establish a narrative that they're rushing through executive orders because they're worried about Biden being a secret CCP member.
- philcrocket 6y agoFor people who don't believe this is a problem or that it's purely a conspiracy theory I recommend you read: Stealth War: How China Took Over While America's Elite Slept Age of Ambition: Chasing Fortune, Truth, and Faith in the New China There's other great resources out there too. But watch out, the rabbit hole goes pretty deep on this one..
- sephamorr 6y agoSilent Invasion is also excellent.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- mhh__ 6y ago> that it's purely a conspiracy theory Who's saying that? The Biden-China things which seem to be being explored is a conspiracy theory, as in an unsubstantiated theory about an alleged conspiracy, but I don't think anyone is under the impression that the Chinese getting up to stuff is a conspiracy theory.
- hker 6y agoThis article sums it up pretty well, although a bit too short: The New China Challenge Stems from Beijing’s Old Ambitions https://nationalinterest.org/feature/new-china-challenge-stems-beijing%E2%80%99s-old-ambitions-174974 https://nationalinterest.org/feature/new-china-challenge-ste... China has made it a goal to subdue Taiwan by 2049, one hundred years anniversary of PRC, which is rejected by the current President of Taiwan. https://asia.nikkei.com/Editor-s-Picks/China-up-close/Taiwan-s-Tsai-shoots-down-Xi-s-unification-road-map https://asia.nikkei.com/Editor-s-Picks/China-up-close/Taiwan... And clearly China wants to do much more than incorporating Taiwan, given their more assertive foreign policies, both within the current international frameworks (United Nations, World Health Organization), and outside of those frameworks (Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank, Belt and Road Initiative). For a very very brief overview of some goals announced by China (dominate production of key technologies by 2025, build a world-class military by 2035, be a superpower by 2049), see a short summary in Section 3 of the Introduction of this proposal: https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/global-strategy-2021-an-allied-strategy-for-china/ https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/global-strategy-2021-an-alli... Overall, the proposed strategy to counter China suggests working with other democracies to out-compete China in military and innovation, while cooperating with China on common interests (public health, climate change). > the rabbit hole goes pretty deep on this one.. (In the rabbit hole right now. Eye opening. Would recommend.)
- koreanguy 6y ago" exploiting United States capital to resource and to enable the development and modernization of its military, intelligence, and other security apparatuses, " is there any point to this, if the united states universities are allowing Chinese Students to study and research with absolut freedom, many of the Scientists were educated in American universities. one of million titles, : Harvard University Professor and Two Chinese Nationals Charged in Three Separate China Related Cases if you do not want china to steal your things. block them in every level possible.
- bigpumpkin 6y agoWhat's the CCP's greatest investment? US treasuries. To the tune of trillions of dollars, the CCP is funding the tyrannical American military that invaded Iraq, and killed hundreds of thousand of innocent civilians. Those curious about this could read more about this here, which documented Obama's unrestricted drone warfare[1]: [1]https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/11/24/unblinking-stare https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/11/24/unblinking-sta... HN readers should take care to not associate themselves or their companies with these moral outrages. Congress should pass a law banning all Chinese investments in US treasuries. Or perhaps Trump could do another Executive Order before his impeachment.