7 ms·

Is this https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/2366 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/2366 ? It really bothers me as well.

by skrap 6y ago

kaszanka 6y ago
Yes. As you can see, this is by design.
- philsnow 6y ago
  This is in my experience emblematic of GNOME in general. I've shaken the dust off my sandals and don't use anything gnome-y if I can avoid it. Here's the thing that convinced me, a while back: https://wiki.gnome.org/Attic/GnomeScreensaver/FrequentlyAskedQuestions#Why_doesn.27t_the_screensaver_preferences_tool_allow_me_to_change_the_settings_for_the_theme.3F https://wiki.gnome.org/Attic/GnomeScreensaver/FrequentlyAske... I'm sure there's people here who are long-time contributors and/or supporters. Just ignore me, I'm not your target audience. ... I'm really not sure who your target audience is, though.
  - Renevith 6y ago
    Holy crap. It reads like a parody written by someone who read this thread and article. I was thinking it couldn't be as bad as people we're saying, but it's worse!
  - throwdbaaway 6y ago
    > I'm really not sure who your target audience is, though. We should ask Havoc Pennington about this, he must have names for all the personas that he came up with, after reading "The Inmates Are Running the Asylum": https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2002-December/msg00482.html https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2002-Dece... I actually have a copy of the book, and it is indeed a good book. The problem is that it somehow empowers GNOME developers to keep creating/maintaining/rewriting broken software, all in the name of "usability".
baybal2 6y ago
> Free software development is not a democracy, and does not get driven by polls. Features and bugs are introduced by those who show up, within a community that works towards a shared goal. And it is exactly to let themselves yell that, they work hard to alienate few normal devs left in the project. I understood now that Gnome 3.0 was from the start Redhat's fully intentional attempt to appropriate the project, and is not dissimilar to Microsoft's embrace, extend, extinguish. 1. Get command of some more abandoned parts of the project. 2. Push a series of guaranteedly unpopular sharp direction changes which will lead to loss of devs. 3. As devs leave, you get more reinforcement to your casus belli, saying that "nobody maintains this pile of garbage, so now I am taking it over too" 4. Rinse, and repeat.
- stretchcat 6y ago
  This sure seems accurate to me, from what I've personally observed, but I don't understand what motive they might have. What's the point of controlling popular software by making everybody hate it?
  - baud147258 6y ago
    > What's the point of controlling popular software by making everybody hate it? they'd be the only left able to offer (paid) support?
    - stretchcat 6y ago
      Does GNOME really bring in much paid support momey? In the past I have worked at a company that did have RHEL5 workstations with GNOME by default, but everybody I knew treated that as a joke and sshed into the workstations from their (Windows) Thinkpads or Macbooks. The desktop software on those workstations was unwanted and unused.
      - lmm 6y ago
        That sounds like the ideal situation for RedHat's business model.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
klodolph 6y ago
I use Linux, macOS, and Windows on a regular basis. I use mostly default settings, only a couple changes. Over time my settings move closer and closer to defaults. I tell people to upgrade their OS (with a couple exceptions). I was on-board with GNOME 3 when it came out (I was an Arch user at the time, but I’m in remission now). The GTK file chooser dialog is easily the most garbage piece of fucking shit. Honestly, sometimes, if I want to post something online I just copy the file to my Mac first just to avoid dealing with the fucking piece of shit GTK file chooser. If I need to sort through a bunch of files, easier to run Samba and sort through them on my Mac, because Nautilus was scooped out of the same fucking pile of shit than the GTK file chooser was scooped from. As far as I can tell, the last time that browsing files on macOS really changed was 2007, when 10.5 came out and had Quick Look. Since then, browsing files on Linux has somehow gotten worse. Do you know what it’s like on macOS? Every once in a while, Apple quietly adds support for previewing a couple more formats.

Is this https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/2366 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/2366 ? It really bothers me as well.

by skrap 6y ago

Is this https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/2366 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/2366 ? It really bothers me as well.

kaszanka 6y ago

Yes. As you can see, this is by design.

philsnow 6y ago
This is in my experience emblematic of GNOME in general. I've shaken the dust off my sandals and don't use anything gnome-y if I can avoid it. Here's the thing that convinced me, a while back: https://wiki.gnome.org/Attic/GnomeScreensaver/FrequentlyAskedQuestions#Why_doesn.27t_the_screensaver_preferences_tool_allow_me_to_change_the_settings_for_the_theme.3F https://wiki.gnome.org/Attic/GnomeScreensaver/FrequentlyAske... I'm sure there's people here who are long-time contributors and/or supporters. Just ignore me, I'm not your target audience. ... I'm really not sure who your target audience is, though.
- Renevith 6y ago
  Holy crap. It reads like a parody written by someone who read this thread and article. I was thinking it couldn't be as bad as people we're saying, but it's worse!
- throwdbaaway 6y ago
  > I'm really not sure who your target audience is, though. We should ask Havoc Pennington about this, he must have names for all the personas that he came up with, after reading "The Inmates Are Running the Asylum": https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2002-December/msg00482.html https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2002-Dece... I actually have a copy of the book, and it is indeed a good book. The problem is that it somehow empowers GNOME developers to keep creating/maintaining/rewriting broken software, all in the name of "usability".

baybal2 6y ago

> Free software development is not a democracy, and does not get driven by polls. Features and bugs are introduced by those who show up, within a community that works towards a shared goal. And it is exactly to let themselves yell that, they work hard to alienate few normal devs left in the project. I understood now that Gnome 3.0 was from the start Redhat's fully intentional attempt to appropriate the project, and is not dissimilar to Microsoft's embrace, extend, extinguish. 1. Get command of some more abandoned parts of the project. 2. Push a series of guaranteedly unpopular sharp direction changes which will lead to loss of devs. 3. As devs leave, you get more reinforcement to your casus belli, saying that "nobody maintains this pile of garbage, so now I am taking it over too" 4. Rinse, and repeat.

stretchcat 6y ago
This sure seems accurate to me, from what I've personally observed, but I don't understand what motive they might have. What's the point of controlling popular software by making everybody hate it?
- baud147258 6y ago
  > What's the point of controlling popular software by making everybody hate it? they'd be the only left able to offer (paid) support?
  - stretchcat 6y ago
    Does GNOME really bring in much paid support momey? In the past I have worked at a company that did have RHEL5 workstations with GNOME by default, but everybody I knew treated that as a joke and sshed into the workstations from their (Windows) Thinkpads or Macbooks. The desktop software on those workstations was unwanted and unused.
    - lmm 6y ago
      That sounds like the ideal situation for RedHat's business model.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

klodolph 6y ago

I use Linux, macOS, and Windows on a regular basis. I use mostly default settings, only a couple changes. Over time my settings move closer and closer to defaults. I tell people to upgrade their OS (with a couple exceptions). I was on-board with GNOME 3 when it came out (I was an Arch user at the time, but I’m in remission now). The GTK file chooser dialog is easily the most garbage piece of fucking shit. Honestly, sometimes, if I want to post something online I just copy the file to my Mac first just to avoid dealing with the fucking piece of shit GTK file chooser. If I need to sort through a bunch of files, easier to run Samba and sort through them on my Mac, because Nautilus was scooped out of the same fucking pile of shit than the GTK file chooser was scooped from. As far as I can tell, the last time that browsing files on macOS really changed was 2007, when 10.5 came out and had Quick Look. Since then, browsing files on Linux has somehow gotten worse. Do you know what it’s like on macOS? Every once in a while, Apple quietly adds support for previewing a couple more formats.