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A compromise would have been performing a transparent audit in the disputed states, especially in counties where the counting stopped and resumed in the middle

A compromise would have been performing a transparent audit in the disputed states, especially in counties where the counting stopped and resumed in the middle of the night. You know, actually listen to and address their complaints instead of just saying 'you're a crazy conspiracy nut.'

Jochim 6y ago
> A compromise would have been performing a transparent audit in the disputed states, especially in counties where the counting stopped and resumed in the middle of the night. But it looks like this did happen? One example[1]. > You know, actually listen to and address their complaints instead of just saying 'you're a crazy conspiracy nut.' There were attempts to address their complaints. Re ounts and audits took place. Those recounts and audits didn't change the result or uncover any further evidence of fraud. This didn't align with Trump's claims so his base dismissed it as lies. The interesting thing coming out of this is that they're now turning on the rest of the republican party who accept what their own observers are telling them. I'd also like to point out that this was all happening while Trump was privately pressuring the Georgia secretary of state to 'find' him enough votes to win[2]. Uncovering fraud was never the motivation here, it's a cynical attempt at destroying trust in the election process in order to corrupt the result. [1]https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/georgia-recount-trump-biden-cobb-county-b1780298.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-electio... [2]https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/10/trump-call-georgia-election-find-the-fraud https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/10/trump-call-g...
- tekknik 6y ago
  > There were attempts to address their complaints. The complaints were not heard without first attempting to call to shame an entire group of 75mil people. And your second source can be read a different way: “find the votes that existed that you shred”, he’s not saying make up the votes, he’s saying find the ones he believes they fraudulently shred. Part of the divide in this country is taking something like this, twisting the words to make a sensational title that’s then thrown at every moderate or conservative. Think about how much this has happened over the last 4 years.
  - empthought 6y ago
    People crying “fraud” were given ample opportunity to present evidence in court. They never did.
    - tekknik 6y ago
      Re read that.
      - empthought 6y ago
        The only people being shamed post-election were those lying about the election results. Most of Trump’s voters were not in a position to lie about that. Trump and his circle of political enablers were, and this is the result. They should be shamed and continue to be shamed until and after legal actions against them are successful. PS this “75 million” phrasing is utter propaganda, let’s talk about 82 million people rejecting this dangerous president and him continuing to make a case that his re-election is somehow more legitimate than a Biden win.
        tekknik 6y ago
        So you’re doing this right now. The entirety of Trumps voters were lying? Anytime we want voter reform it’s disenfranchisement right? The complaints still have not been heard. If the left keeps this up they will do nothing but push the divide more.
        empthought 6y ago
        The complaints have been heard and dismissed for lack of evidence dozens of times in courtrooms across the country. The president and his lawyers making a claim without presenting evidence is not grounds for overturning an election, full stop. They’re the ones who are lying, fomenting insurrection, and deserve to be shamed. The people who believe them are unfortunate.
        6y ago
empthought 6y ago
There’s nothing to “audit?” They stopped and then resumed the next morning. Believe it or not the elections law wasn’t created in October 2020; they’re a well-regulated and secure process. As evinced by no one being able to present any evidence of widespread fraudulent behavior even in states with GOP legislatures and Secretaries of State.
- linuxftw 6y ago
  There's plenty to audit. Does the number of votes match the number of voters? Are there chain of custody records. Are there envelopes for the mailed ballots? Are all the mailed ballots actually registered voters, and were they actually mailed? Furthermore, what mechanism was used to ensure that voters did not double vote by voting both in person and via absentee? There's been reports of thousands of votes not being counted or added to the transmitted counts in various jurisdictions. That means at least part of the system broke down.
  - empthought 6y ago
    No, that means the people reporting these massive numbers of votes not counted are liars. There is ample statutory and regulatory provision in every state for processes that confirm every aspect of what you are questioning. It’s as if you know nothing about elections or election systems.
    - linuxftw 6y ago
      It means that the processes failed, weren't enforced, either willfully or negligently. If someone is able to report the wrong number of total votes, it means all the controls in the process weren't followed or simply doesn't work. The burden of proof is on the people holding the election to prove it's valid. So far, 'certifying' results is a rubber stamp, there's no actual certification being done.

Jochim 6y ago

> A compromise would have been performing a transparent audit in the disputed states, especially in counties where the counting stopped and resumed in the middle of the night. But it looks like this did happen? One example[1]. > You know, actually listen to and address their complaints instead of just saying 'you're a crazy conspiracy nut.' There were attempts to address their complaints. Re ounts and audits took place. Those recounts and audits didn't change the result or uncover any further evidence of fraud. This didn't align with Trump's claims so his base dismissed it as lies. The interesting thing coming out of this is that they're now turning on the rest of the republican party who accept what their own observers are telling them. I'd also like to point out that this was all happening while Trump was privately pressuring the Georgia secretary of state to 'find' him enough votes to win[2]. Uncovering fraud was never the motivation here, it's a cynical attempt at destroying trust in the election process in order to corrupt the result. [1]https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/georgia-recount-trump-biden-cobb-county-b1780298.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-electio... [2]https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/10/trump-call-georgia-election-find-the-fraud https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/10/trump-call-g...

tekknik 6y ago
> There were attempts to address their complaints. The complaints were not heard without first attempting to call to shame an entire group of 75mil people. And your second source can be read a different way: “find the votes that existed that you shred”, he’s not saying make up the votes, he’s saying find the ones he believes they fraudulently shred. Part of the divide in this country is taking something like this, twisting the words to make a sensational title that’s then thrown at every moderate or conservative. Think about how much this has happened over the last 4 years.
- empthought 6y ago
  People crying “fraud” were given ample opportunity to present evidence in court. They never did.
  - tekknik 6y ago
    Re read that.
    - empthought 6y ago
      The only people being shamed post-election were those lying about the election results. Most of Trump’s voters were not in a position to lie about that. Trump and his circle of political enablers were, and this is the result. They should be shamed and continue to be shamed until and after legal actions against them are successful. PS this “75 million” phrasing is utter propaganda, let’s talk about 82 million people rejecting this dangerous president and him continuing to make a case that his re-election is somehow more legitimate than a Biden win.
      - tekknik 6y ago
        So you’re doing this right now. The entirety of Trumps voters were lying? Anytime we want voter reform it’s disenfranchisement right? The complaints still have not been heard. If the left keeps this up they will do nothing but push the divide more.
        empthought 6y ago
        The complaints have been heard and dismissed for lack of evidence dozens of times in courtrooms across the country. The president and his lawyers making a claim without presenting evidence is not grounds for overturning an election, full stop. They’re the ones who are lying, fomenting insurrection, and deserve to be shamed. The people who believe them are unfortunate.
        6y ago

empthought 6y ago

There’s nothing to “audit?” They stopped and then resumed the next morning. Believe it or not the elections law wasn’t created in October 2020; they’re a well-regulated and secure process. As evinced by no one being able to present any evidence of widespread fraudulent behavior even in states with GOP legislatures and Secretaries of State.

linuxftw 6y ago
There's plenty to audit. Does the number of votes match the number of voters? Are there chain of custody records. Are there envelopes for the mailed ballots? Are all the mailed ballots actually registered voters, and were they actually mailed? Furthermore, what mechanism was used to ensure that voters did not double vote by voting both in person and via absentee? There's been reports of thousands of votes not being counted or added to the transmitted counts in various jurisdictions. That means at least part of the system broke down.
- empthought 6y ago
  No, that means the people reporting these massive numbers of votes not counted are liars. There is ample statutory and regulatory provision in every state for processes that confirm every aspect of what you are questioning. It’s as if you know nothing about elections or election systems.
  - linuxftw 6y ago
    It means that the processes failed, weren't enforced, either willfully or negligently. If someone is able to report the wrong number of total votes, it means all the controls in the process weren't followed or simply doesn't work. The burden of proof is on the people holding the election to prove it's valid. So far, 'certifying' results is a rubber stamp, there's no actual certification being done.