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Wow, what a nightmare. Every time I hear people on HN talk about Matrix as a potential alternative to WhatsApp I always think “I’ll try that” then I look at it

by Closi 6y ago

Wow, what a nightmare. Every time I hear people on HN talk about Matrix as a potential alternative to WhatsApp I always think “I’ll try that” then I look at it for about 20 seconds before deciding it’s just not worth it.

niutech 6y ago
Could you elaborate why? Have you tried Matterbridge (https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge) instead?
- Closi 6y ago
  Take that page for example - I’ve got no idea what on earth it is after reading the first few pages (I mean I do, but with a consumer hat on I don’t). I mean it says it’s supposed to be simple, but then moves on to a load of command line arguments and something about an API and then suggests I build it from source. I mean clearly they have a different idea on what simple means! This isn’t consumer level software yet.
  - 29083011397778 6y ago
    Perhaps not the Mattermost bridge, but https://matrix.org https://matrix.org is pretty straightforward in my eyes. The "Try Now" button is clearly visible, and takes you right to multiple different clients and a clear option to open it in your browser. From there it's the login / sign-up flow. Is there something I'm just too familiar with? I really like the project, so I've been through the site (and set up my own server) enough that maybe I'm glossing over a rough point.
    - t-writescode 6y ago
      “It looks like I have to create a server and then join a federation? How do I do that? I need to register a domain? Where’s the common server? How do I get a user? How do I get other servers to federate with me?” My experience with Matrix has been a lot of confusion about it. I feel like I need to know about too much to even start in a meaningful way.
      - GekkePrutser 6y ago
        There is no common server. Each matrix address has the name of the server in it. Though matrix.org acts as a central point because there's so many users on it. It's not needed however.
        Closi 6y ago
        IMO they really need to think through their branding and communication strategy. I've downloaded element now and it's simple, but there are lots of things they need to sort from a customer journey perspective: 1. Why is the Matrix homepage so technical? API's? HTTP Calls? What about staying in touch with my family? Contrast the two different opening statements (Matrix vs WhatsApp vs Messenger): > An open network for secure, decentralized communication [...] Matrix is an open source project that publishes the Matrix open standard for secure, decentralised, real-time communication, and its Apache licensed reference implementations. > Simple. Secure. Reliable messaging. With WhatsApp, you'll get fast, simple, secure messaging and calling for free, available on phones all over the world. > Hang out whenever, wherever. Messenger makes it easy and fun to stay close to your favourite people. 2. It's not clear to me (a consumer) that in order to chat on Matrix I need Element, or that if I'm on Element I'm on Matrix. Or if I'm on Element my friends can have any matrix client, that might be called something else. So if I have Element and they have Nio that's fine. But Kik and Nio isn't. These are just small details, but they would help a huge amount.
        GekkePrutser 6y ago
        Matrix is so technical because it's the website that explains the protocol behind it. Matrix is a protocol, more similar to IRC, you can access it with the client of your choice. This is our course how all of the internet used to work until companies started making their own walled gardens :) But because of this the usage itself is better described by the various client websites like element.
DenseComet 6y ago
Matrix itself works pretty well. This is specifically a guide on bridging WhatsApp with Matrix, and since WhatsApp really does not want you using its service without using its app, its bound to be a bit complicated.
GekkePrutser 6y ago
Matrix itself works great. But the bridges leave a lot to be desired. Mind you, most of them are only in alpha or beta status. But it requires a lot of fiddling around to keep them running. Some bridges just stop working without telling you and this makes it hard too rely on them. Always second guessing whether it's just quiet or the bridge went down again. The signal one in particular is bad for this. I try it every year and it gets better but progress is slow. Also, be aware that your fully bridged matrix server is a prime hacker target, it captures all you private Comms and can impersonate you. Much harder to do with all individual apps. This is another thing I worry about. So for these reasons I just test it every year but never found it production ready.

by Closi 6y ago

niutech 6y ago

Could you elaborate why? Have you tried Matterbridge (https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge) instead?

Closi 6y ago
Take that page for example - I’ve got no idea what on earth it is after reading the first few pages (I mean I do, but with a consumer hat on I don’t). I mean it says it’s supposed to be simple, but then moves on to a load of command line arguments and something about an API and then suggests I build it from source. I mean clearly they have a different idea on what simple means! This isn’t consumer level software yet.
- 29083011397778 6y ago
  Perhaps not the Mattermost bridge, but https://matrix.org https://matrix.org is pretty straightforward in my eyes. The "Try Now" button is clearly visible, and takes you right to multiple different clients and a clear option to open it in your browser. From there it's the login / sign-up flow. Is there something I'm just too familiar with? I really like the project, so I've been through the site (and set up my own server) enough that maybe I'm glossing over a rough point.
  - t-writescode 6y ago
    “It looks like I have to create a server and then join a federation? How do I do that? I need to register a domain? Where’s the common server? How do I get a user? How do I get other servers to federate with me?” My experience with Matrix has been a lot of confusion about it. I feel like I need to know about too much to even start in a meaningful way.
    - GekkePrutser 6y ago
      There is no common server. Each matrix address has the name of the server in it. Though matrix.org acts as a central point because there's so many users on it. It's not needed however.
      - Closi 6y ago
        IMO they really need to think through their branding and communication strategy. I've downloaded element now and it's simple, but there are lots of things they need to sort from a customer journey perspective: 1. Why is the Matrix homepage so technical? API's? HTTP Calls? What about staying in touch with my family? Contrast the two different opening statements (Matrix vs WhatsApp vs Messenger): > An open network for secure, decentralized communication [...] Matrix is an open source project that publishes the Matrix open standard for secure, decentralised, real-time communication, and its Apache licensed reference implementations. > Simple. Secure. Reliable messaging. With WhatsApp, you'll get fast, simple, secure messaging and calling for free, available on phones all over the world. > Hang out whenever, wherever. Messenger makes it easy and fun to stay close to your favourite people. 2. It's not clear to me (a consumer) that in order to chat on Matrix I need Element, or that if I'm on Element I'm on Matrix. Or if I'm on Element my friends can have any matrix client, that might be called something else. So if I have Element and they have Nio that's fine. But Kik and Nio isn't. These are just small details, but they would help a huge amount.
        GekkePrutser 6y ago
        Matrix is so technical because it's the website that explains the protocol behind it. Matrix is a protocol, more similar to IRC, you can access it with the client of your choice. This is our course how all of the internet used to work until companies started making their own walled gardens :) But because of this the usage itself is better described by the various client websites like element.

DenseComet 6y ago

Matrix itself works pretty well. This is specifically a guide on bridging WhatsApp with Matrix, and since WhatsApp really does not want you using its service without using its app, its bound to be a bit complicated.

GekkePrutser 6y ago

Matrix itself works great. But the bridges leave a lot to be desired. Mind you, most of them are only in alpha or beta status. But it requires a lot of fiddling around to keep them running. Some bridges just stop working without telling you and this makes it hard too rely on them. Always second guessing whether it's just quiet or the bridge went down again. The signal one in particular is bad for this. I try it every year and it gets better but progress is slow. Also, be aware that your fully bridged matrix server is a prime hacker target, it captures all you private Comms and can impersonate you. Much harder to do with all individual apps. This is another thing I worry about. So for these reasons I just test it every year but never found it production ready.