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You're arbitrarily discounting alternatives to fit your narrative. If you think that ACH or Amex is less accessible then that's no different than other networks

You're arbitrarily discounting alternatives to fit your narrative. If you think that ACH or Amex is less accessible then that's no different than other networks not having the same scale or distribution as Twitter and Apple. Why is it ok for some but not others when they all technically have alternatives? Anyways my greater point is that illegal actions should be forwarded to the appropriate state department which can investigate and prosecute with appropriate authority and accountability. Private companies are setting a dangerous precedent, especially as they gain superior scale and then collude at multiple layers against the same organization.

PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
ACH takes longer than 24 hours, so there's no goal post moving there. As I indicated below, I think it is pretty hard to get paid via Amex if Visa/MC have blocked you (3rd party payment processors such as paypal will likely block you too). I would agree about the "forward to the government" part if that was part of normal business to find the illegal actions. I read the Visa/MC - Pornhub thing as more as a case of of Visa/MC saying "look, we think its clear that there's illegal stuff happening on your platform; we're not going to play detective here; we don't want to run the risk of being complicit of processing payments for illegal stuff, so we're cutting you off." That is, it's a statement about their desire to (not) take legal risks. They are operating within a legal context where others may do what you are suggesting and then put them in legal jeopardy.
- manigandham 6y ago
  They wouldn't be complicit. The legal structure allows companies to operate with protection from their users engaging in illegal activities until it's explicitly proven or otherwise ordered by the state. The "we think it's clear" is the dangerous part, especially when applied outside of a few easy targets discussed here. MC/Visa have numerous examples of shutting down completely legitimate businesses, and so do Google and Apple usually with a weekly HN thread highlighting yet another startup/app unceremoniously wiped off the net. Either it's all a problem or none of it is. Do you disagree with this?
  - PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
    I don't care (much) about apps. Part of that is because I'm old, part of it is because I don't use a cell phone, part of it is because I do most of what people do on their cell phones from ... uhm ... more traditional computing devices. If I did care, then perhaps I'd see Google/Apple store bans etc. as more equivalent to Visa/MC payment processing bans. As it stands, I don't.

PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago

ACH takes longer than 24 hours, so there's no goal post moving there. As I indicated below, I think it is pretty hard to get paid via Amex if Visa/MC have blocked you (3rd party payment processors such as paypal will likely block you too). I would agree about the "forward to the government" part if that was part of normal business to find the illegal actions. I read the Visa/MC - Pornhub thing as more as a case of of Visa/MC saying "look, we think its clear that there's illegal stuff happening on your platform; we're not going to play detective here; we don't want to run the risk of being complicit of processing payments for illegal stuff, so we're cutting you off." That is, it's a statement about their desire to (not) take legal risks. They are operating within a legal context where others may do what you are suggesting and then put them in legal jeopardy.

manigandham 6y ago
They wouldn't be complicit. The legal structure allows companies to operate with protection from their users engaging in illegal activities until it's explicitly proven or otherwise ordered by the state. The "we think it's clear" is the dangerous part, especially when applied outside of a few easy targets discussed here. MC/Visa have numerous examples of shutting down completely legitimate businesses, and so do Google and Apple usually with a weekly HN thread highlighting yet another startup/app unceremoniously wiped off the net. Either it's all a problem or none of it is. Do you disagree with this?
- PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
  I don't care (much) about apps. Part of that is because I'm old, part of it is because I don't use a cell phone, part of it is because I do most of what people do on their cell phones from ... uhm ... more traditional computing devices. If I did care, then perhaps I'd see Google/Apple store bans etc. as more equivalent to Visa/MC payment processing bans. As it stands, I don't.