3 ms·

Same here in Europe. I don't believe it's possible to have unions (or governments) that work for the individual.

jedmeyers 6y ago
It's possible but the majority of stakeholders need to be actively engaged in managing that entity. Otherwise it will be taken oven by the bad actors trying to primarily benefit themselves.
- emteycz 6y ago
  Yeah, but that ceases to work once that entity is too large. I personally think the limit is around 50 or so, but I don't see the need for union in a 50-head company. I've literally never seen a functioning union anywhere I went (I live in Europe). Everyone I met in my life, in a bar, etc is angry at their unions.
  - jedmeyers 6y ago
    > I personally think the limit is around 50 Incidentally, I personally think the limit for communist societies is around 50 people or so.
    - emteycz 6y ago
      Agreed! My experience from (adult) summer camps etc is that after 50 or so it becomes impossible to know what's everyone up to, and distrust starts rooting. Another issue is that people have unrealistic idea about what can and should be done in a day/week/month. They don't care about their own work nearly that much, and will forgive themselves a lot, but will expect others to upheld that unrealistic standard.
Daho0n 6y ago
Definitely not the same "in Europe". Maybe in some of it (after all the two biggest countries in Europe is Russia and Ukraine). In Scandinavia unions work really well for the most part - at least extremely well compared to the US. It is one of the biggest reasons for the Scandinavian model.
- emteycz 6y ago
  I'd say "most of it", you're right that there are two countries where it seems to work at least a little - at great costs though, I have many Scandinavian colleagues (working in hi-tech fields) that left their country because of overregulation.
  - chucky 6y ago
    There's a survivorship bias here. Of course you are going to meet the people who left the country. On the flip side, as a native Scandinavian I have many colleagues from outside of Scandinavia that moved here because of many of the things unions have accomplished - 25 days of paid vacation, a culture of working your 8 hours a day and not more than that, and a child care system that allows you to spend more time with your kids.

It's possible but the majority of stakeholders need to be actively engaged in managing that entity. Otherwise it will be taken oven by the bad actors trying to primarily benefit themselves.

emteycz 6y ago
Yeah, but that ceases to work once that entity is too large. I personally think the limit is around 50 or so, but I don't see the need for union in a 50-head company. I've literally never seen a functioning union anywhere I went (I live in Europe). Everyone I met in my life, in a bar, etc is angry at their unions.
- jedmeyers 6y ago
  > I personally think the limit is around 50 Incidentally, I personally think the limit for communist societies is around 50 people or so.
  - emteycz 6y ago
    Agreed! My experience from (adult) summer camps etc is that after 50 or so it becomes impossible to know what's everyone up to, and distrust starts rooting. Another issue is that people have unrealistic idea about what can and should be done in a day/week/month. They don't care about their own work nearly that much, and will forgive themselves a lot, but will expect others to upheld that unrealistic standard.

Daho0n 6y ago

Definitely not the same "in Europe". Maybe in some of it (after all the two biggest countries in Europe is Russia and Ukraine). In Scandinavia unions work really well for the most part - at least extremely well compared to the US. It is one of the biggest reasons for the Scandinavian model.

emteycz 6y ago
I'd say "most of it", you're right that there are two countries where it seems to work at least a little - at great costs though, I have many Scandinavian colleagues (working in hi-tech fields) that left their country because of overregulation.
- chucky 6y ago
  There's a survivorship bias here. Of course you are going to meet the people who left the country. On the flip side, as a native Scandinavian I have many colleagues from outside of Scandinavia that moved here because of many of the things unions have accomplished - 25 days of paid vacation, a culture of working your 8 hours a day and not more than that, and a child care system that allows you to spend more time with your kids.