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Element looks like more of a hassle specially for non tech savvy users in my family circle, I'm trying to get them to move to Signal from WhatsApp / FB Messenge

by suyash 6y ago

Element looks like more of a hassle specially for non tech savvy users in my family circle, I'm trying to get them to move to Signal from WhatsApp / FB Messenger.

kitkat_new 6y ago
how so?
- suyash 6y ago
  look at the setup steps and compare that with installing Signal app
  - kitkat_new 6y ago
    set username & pw? people get that done - look at Instagram which grew despite having to do the exact same
  - m-p-3 6y ago
    Sure, Signal is simpler, but Matrix isn't harder than configuring a new email account on an free provider, and you still get the option of setting up your own if you want to use your own domain name. And I hate that Signal's identity is linked to a phone number.
    - dunefox 6y ago
      > Matrix isn't harder than configuring a new email account on an free provider You say that, but for a number of my contacts this is a significant hurdle... especially relatives.
sundarurfriend 6y ago
Out of curiosity, why Signal and not Telegram? I don't know details about either, just that Telegram seems more popular with reportedly a better UI for non-technical people.
- kitkat_new 6y ago
  Telegram does not really support e2e encryption, except for 1:1 chats (which will only work on one device and must be activated explicitly)
- feanaro 6y ago
  Apart from Telegram now having E2E encryption by default, it also invents its own weird and unverified encryption instead of using a more peer-reviewed and robust method. Signal's encryption tech has some strong guarantees and advanced the state-of-the-art when it first appeared. Worth noting that Matrix's crypto is also based on Signal's algorithm (but extended to support efficient encryption in rooms with a large number of participants).
  - sundarurfriend 6y ago
    > Apart from Telegram now having E2E encryption by default, it also invents its own weird and unverified encryption I was confused since the tone of that sentence sounded weird (Apart from <positive>, it also <negative>), but I think it's a typo - I believe you meant to type "Apart from Telegram not having E2E encryption by default"?
    - feanaro 6y ago
      You're right. :/ Too late to edit now.
  - BelenusMordred 6y ago
    For the most part I think the fears over their crypto is overblown. But their behaviour over the years and not being secure by default means people shouldn't be using it just on principal. Signal's double ratchet algorithm is easily the gold standard for now and there's little reason for anyone pushing a E2EE privacy narrative to not be using it.
    - dunefox 6y ago
      It's sad that Signal has a horrible Desktop Client and isn't much to look at because the security and privacy features are good, if you disregard the forced cell phone number.

by suyash 6y ago

Element looks like more of a hassle specially for non tech savvy users in my family circle, I'm trying to get them to move to Signal from WhatsApp / FB Messenger.

kitkat_new 6y ago

how so?

suyash 6y ago
look at the setup steps and compare that with installing Signal app
- kitkat_new 6y ago
  set username & pw? people get that done - look at Instagram which grew despite having to do the exact same
- m-p-3 6y ago
  Sure, Signal is simpler, but Matrix isn't harder than configuring a new email account on an free provider, and you still get the option of setting up your own if you want to use your own domain name. And I hate that Signal's identity is linked to a phone number.
  - dunefox 6y ago
    > Matrix isn't harder than configuring a new email account on an free provider You say that, but for a number of my contacts this is a significant hurdle... especially relatives.

sundarurfriend 6y ago

Out of curiosity, why Signal and not Telegram? I don't know details about either, just that Telegram seems more popular with reportedly a better UI for non-technical people.

kitkat_new 6y ago
Telegram does not really support e2e encryption, except for 1:1 chats (which will only work on one device and must be activated explicitly)
feanaro 6y ago
Apart from Telegram now having E2E encryption by default, it also invents its own weird and unverified encryption instead of using a more peer-reviewed and robust method. Signal's encryption tech has some strong guarantees and advanced the state-of-the-art when it first appeared. Worth noting that Matrix's crypto is also based on Signal's algorithm (but extended to support efficient encryption in rooms with a large number of participants).
- sundarurfriend 6y ago
  > Apart from Telegram now having E2E encryption by default, it also invents its own weird and unverified encryption I was confused since the tone of that sentence sounded weird (Apart from <positive>, it also <negative>), but I think it's a typo - I believe you meant to type "Apart from Telegram not having E2E encryption by default"?
  - feanaro 6y ago
    You're right. :/ Too late to edit now.
- BelenusMordred 6y ago
  For the most part I think the fears over their crypto is overblown. But their behaviour over the years and not being secure by default means people shouldn't be using it just on principal. Signal's double ratchet algorithm is easily the gold standard for now and there's little reason for anyone pushing a E2EE privacy narrative to not be using it.
  - dunefox 6y ago
    It's sad that Signal has a horrible Desktop Client and isn't much to look at because the security and privacy features are good, if you disregard the forced cell phone number.