3 ms·

I don't see people avoiding using phones even though neo-nazi, criminals, redheads and people with sexual preferences radically different from theirs use them c

I don't see people avoiding using phones even though neo-nazi, criminals, redheads and people with sexual preferences radically different from theirs use them constantly. Matrix is not a platform, it's a protocol and some implementation software developed in the open.

swsieber 6y ago
Yeah, I'd see more of an issue it matrix was a platform. It's more akin to email.
- johnchristopher 6y ago
  You mean in a few years there'll be only 3 or 4 free mail providers with e2e disabled for convenience[0] and data broker objectives (as a mean to pay for the service) and only a selected few can federate (because hey, spam or something) ? Like Mastodon, Matrix has it built-in in its principles that a federated instance can prevent being contacted from another (this is the whitelist setting). Feel free to correct me, I am not 100% sure. [0] or available for real money !
_1100 6y ago
And these distinctions are esoteric to most. If the headline “(extremist group) use / flock to matrix to plan (nefarious thing)” shows up in the news, these distinctions hardly matter anymore.
- kitkat_new 6y ago
  Do you think they notice that Element uses Matrix as a protocol?
- yorwba 6y ago
  Has the headline “(extremist group) use / flock to WhatsApp to plan (nefarious thing)” ever dissuaded someone from installing WhatsApp? Probably, but it got popular anyway. https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/627577/Islamic-State-Terrorist-Attack-Paris-WhatsApp-Encrypted https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/6275...
karatinversion 6y ago
So, it’s important to get this right. In reputational effects, like this one, we don’t care about P(I use this | I’m a bad person) because, like you point out, this obscures cases, like breathing air, where P(I use this) is already high. Instead, we care about P(I’m a bad person | I use this) And we especially care if this conditional probability is perceived to be high. This is because then your potential users will worry that if they use your product, others will make the (justified!) Bayesian inference that they are bad people. Because they don’t want to be seen to be bad people, they will avoid it.

swsieber 6y ago

Yeah, I'd see more of an issue it matrix was a platform. It's more akin to email.

johnchristopher 6y ago
You mean in a few years there'll be only 3 or 4 free mail providers with e2e disabled for convenience[0] and data broker objectives (as a mean to pay for the service) and only a selected few can federate (because hey, spam or something) ? Like Mastodon, Matrix has it built-in in its principles that a federated instance can prevent being contacted from another (this is the whitelist setting). Feel free to correct me, I am not 100% sure. [0] or available for real money !

_1100 6y ago

And these distinctions are esoteric to most. If the headline “(extremist group) use / flock to matrix to plan (nefarious thing)” shows up in the news, these distinctions hardly matter anymore.

kitkat_new 6y ago
Do you think they notice that Element uses Matrix as a protocol?
yorwba 6y ago
Has the headline “(extremist group) use / flock to WhatsApp to plan (nefarious thing)” ever dissuaded someone from installing WhatsApp? Probably, but it got popular anyway. https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/627577/Islamic-State-Terrorist-Attack-Paris-WhatsApp-Encrypted https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/6275...

karatinversion 6y ago

So, it’s important to get this right. In reputational effects, like this one, we don’t care about P(I use this | I’m a bad person) because, like you point out, this obscures cases, like breathing air, where P(I use this) is already high. Instead, we care about P(I’m a bad person | I use this) And we especially care if this conditional probability is perceived to be high. This is because then your potential users will worry that if they use your product, others will make the (justified!) Bayesian inference that they are bad people. Because they don’t want to be seen to be bad people, they will avoid it.