5 ms·

Bridge WhatsApp with Matrix (and Signal, Telegram, iMessage, Mattermost, etc.)

63 points by niutech 6y ago

niutech 6y ago
You can get rid of Whatsapp by bridging it with other secure messaging apps (like Signal, Telegram, iMessage, Mattermost) using Android VM and Matrix bridges: https://matrix.org/bridges/ https://matrix.org/bridges/ Alternatively, you can use Matterbridge: https://ibcomputing.com/setting-up-whatsapp-telegram-bridge-using-matterbridge-2020/ https://ibcomputing.com/setting-up-whatsapp-telegram-bridge-...
- spockz 6y ago
  Doesn’t this still open you up for profiling by WhatsApp/Facebook on the WhatsApp edges of your communication?
  - niutech 6y ago
    No, because you'll be using a disposable SIM card only for WhatsApp installed in the Android Virtual Machine. Facebook won't have access to your own smartphone and your activity.
    - acct776 6y ago
      But...all of your contacts stopped talking to one number, and started talking to the new burner number. They know it's you.
      - niutech 6y ago
        Facebook cannot know it, since it is another phone no. not used anywhere else. The point of using another SIM card in Android VM is that Whatsapp doesn't have access to your Facebook profile, your web activity, your real phone no., real location, MAC address of your primary smartphone etc. Meanwhile you can use Signal/Telegram/iMessage to chat with your Whatsapp contacts.
        t-writescode 6y ago
        It takes something like calling 3 phone numbers to uniquely identify the owner of a phone number. Connecting to several of your old friends is more than enough to identify someone with an incredibly high level of confidence. (Example list of people: someone at your job or a friend, another friend, your mother.)
        niutech 6y ago
        Possibly, but it's still better than using Whatsapp as before.
        acct776 6y ago
        It's a half measure technical solution to a political problem. Obscure, please, in all seriousness - but fund the EFF, and vote for people who support data privacy vocally.
        fsflover 6y ago
        > Facebook cannot know it, since it is another phone no. not used anywhere else. They just compare the set of friends with whom you spoke using your original number and with whom this new number speaks now. Otherwise you are right.
        mycall 6y ago
        Would they really do this? Lots of people have multiple phones anyways.
        nashashmi 6y ago
        Yes. They really would do this. They use a probability factor to identify similarity with other users. If the similarities match high, they internally identify it as a probable identical profile. But for this to happen successfully, they would have to use the first profile that didn’t agree to new terms and compare it to new profile that did agree to new terms. Btw, somewhere in Facebook land they are trying to workaround this hack. Which means FTC should be all over this.
      - mike-cardwell 6y ago
        Every single one of your friends will add a contact to their phone, with 1: The new phone number, 2: Your real life name. They'll then go and share that contact list with a dozen different apps, including Facebook and Whatsapp. Some of them will add your email address, birthday, and home address to that contact as well.
        acct776 6y ago
        Information asymmetry is a motherfucker - and they have it all.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
29083011397778 6y ago
A point to note for anyone intending on switching: the whatsapp bridge does not (yet) support voice or video calls. It's understandable, as it can't be done through the Whatsapp Web interface, but it's still a deal-breaker for me.
Closi 6y ago
Wow, what a nightmare. Every time I hear people on HN talk about Matrix as a potential alternative to WhatsApp I always think “I’ll try that” then I look at it for about 20 seconds before deciding it’s just not worth it.
- niutech 6y ago
  Could you elaborate why? Have you tried Matterbridge (https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge) instead?
  - Closi 6y ago
    Take that page for example - I’ve got no idea what on earth it is after reading the first few pages (I mean I do, but with a consumer hat on I don’t). I mean it says it’s supposed to be simple, but then moves on to a load of command line arguments and something about an API and then suggests I build it from source. I mean clearly they have a different idea on what simple means! This isn’t consumer level software yet.
    - 29083011397778 6y ago
      Perhaps not the Mattermost bridge, but https://matrix.org https://matrix.org is pretty straightforward in my eyes. The "Try Now" button is clearly visible, and takes you right to multiple different clients and a clear option to open it in your browser. From there it's the login / sign-up flow. Is there something I'm just too familiar with? I really like the project, so I've been through the site (and set up my own server) enough that maybe I'm glossing over a rough point.
      - t-writescode 6y ago
        “It looks like I have to create a server and then join a federation? How do I do that? I need to register a domain? Where’s the common server? How do I get a user? How do I get other servers to federate with me?” My experience with Matrix has been a lot of confusion about it. I feel like I need to know about too much to even start in a meaningful way.
abdullahkhalids 6y ago
How long before Facebook/WhatsApp blocks your account because you are using an unauthorized way to access chats?
- niutech 6y ago
  As long as the underlying Go-Whatsapp (https://github.com/Rhymen/go-whatsapp https://github.com/Rhymen/go-whatsapp) protocol implementation is byte-for-byte identical to the original Whatsapp Web client protocol, it should be indistinguishable.
  - NullPrefix 6y ago
    What's stopping them from banning Go-Whatsapp ?
    - GekkePrutser 6y ago
      Well like he says, it's very hard for them to distinguish.
      - NullPrefix 6y ago
        Yeah, sorry, I've misunderstood niutech's statement. Somewhy I tought that niutech meant that Go-Whatsapp and Matrix bridge are byte to byte indentical, not Go-Whatsapp and official web client.

63 points by niutech 6y ago

You can get rid of Whatsapp by bridging it with other secure messaging apps (like Signal, Telegram, iMessage, Mattermost) using Android VM and Matrix bridges: https://matrix.org/bridges/ https://matrix.org/bridges/ Alternatively, you can use Matterbridge: https://ibcomputing.com/setting-up-whatsapp-telegram-bridge-using-matterbridge-2020/ https://ibcomputing.com/setting-up-whatsapp-telegram-bridge-...

spockz 6y ago
Doesn’t this still open you up for profiling by WhatsApp/Facebook on the WhatsApp edges of your communication?
- niutech 6y ago
  No, because you'll be using a disposable SIM card only for WhatsApp installed in the Android Virtual Machine. Facebook won't have access to your own smartphone and your activity.
  - acct776 6y ago
    But...all of your contacts stopped talking to one number, and started talking to the new burner number. They know it's you.
    - niutech 6y ago
      Facebook cannot know it, since it is another phone no. not used anywhere else. The point of using another SIM card in Android VM is that Whatsapp doesn't have access to your Facebook profile, your web activity, your real phone no., real location, MAC address of your primary smartphone etc. Meanwhile you can use Signal/Telegram/iMessage to chat with your Whatsapp contacts.
      - t-writescode 6y ago
        It takes something like calling 3 phone numbers to uniquely identify the owner of a phone number. Connecting to several of your old friends is more than enough to identify someone with an incredibly high level of confidence. (Example list of people: someone at your job or a friend, another friend, your mother.)
        niutech 6y ago
        Possibly, but it's still better than using Whatsapp as before.
        acct776 6y ago
        It's a half measure technical solution to a political problem. Obscure, please, in all seriousness - but fund the EFF, and vote for people who support data privacy vocally.
      - fsflover 6y ago
        > Facebook cannot know it, since it is another phone no. not used anywhere else. They just compare the set of friends with whom you spoke using your original number and with whom this new number speaks now. Otherwise you are right.
        mycall 6y ago
        Would they really do this? Lots of people have multiple phones anyways.
        nashashmi 6y ago
        Yes. They really would do this. They use a probability factor to identify similarity with other users. If the similarities match high, they internally identify it as a probable identical profile. But for this to happen successfully, they would have to use the first profile that didn’t agree to new terms and compare it to new profile that did agree to new terms. Btw, somewhere in Facebook land they are trying to workaround this hack. Which means FTC should be all over this.
    - mike-cardwell 6y ago
      Every single one of your friends will add a contact to their phone, with 1: The new phone number, 2: Your real life name. They'll then go and share that contact list with a dozen different apps, including Facebook and Whatsapp. Some of them will add your email address, birthday, and home address to that contact as well.
      - acct776 6y ago
        Information asymmetry is a motherfucker - and they have it all.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

29083011397778 6y ago

A point to note for anyone intending on switching: the whatsapp bridge does not (yet) support voice or video calls. It's understandable, as it can't be done through the Whatsapp Web interface, but it's still a deal-breaker for me.

Closi 6y ago

Wow, what a nightmare. Every time I hear people on HN talk about Matrix as a potential alternative to WhatsApp I always think “I’ll try that” then I look at it for about 20 seconds before deciding it’s just not worth it.

niutech 6y ago
Could you elaborate why? Have you tried Matterbridge (https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge) instead?
- Closi 6y ago
  Take that page for example - I’ve got no idea what on earth it is after reading the first few pages (I mean I do, but with a consumer hat on I don’t). I mean it says it’s supposed to be simple, but then moves on to a load of command line arguments and something about an API and then suggests I build it from source. I mean clearly they have a different idea on what simple means! This isn’t consumer level software yet.
  - 29083011397778 6y ago
    Perhaps not the Mattermost bridge, but https://matrix.org https://matrix.org is pretty straightforward in my eyes. The "Try Now" button is clearly visible, and takes you right to multiple different clients and a clear option to open it in your browser. From there it's the login / sign-up flow. Is there something I'm just too familiar with? I really like the project, so I've been through the site (and set up my own server) enough that maybe I'm glossing over a rough point.
    - t-writescode 6y ago
      “It looks like I have to create a server and then join a federation? How do I do that? I need to register a domain? Where’s the common server? How do I get a user? How do I get other servers to federate with me?” My experience with Matrix has been a lot of confusion about it. I feel like I need to know about too much to even start in a meaningful way.

abdullahkhalids 6y ago

How long before Facebook/WhatsApp blocks your account because you are using an unauthorized way to access chats?

niutech 6y ago
As long as the underlying Go-Whatsapp (https://github.com/Rhymen/go-whatsapp https://github.com/Rhymen/go-whatsapp) protocol implementation is byte-for-byte identical to the original Whatsapp Web client protocol, it should be indistinguishable.
- NullPrefix 6y ago
  What's stopping them from banning Go-Whatsapp ?
  - GekkePrutser 6y ago
    Well like he says, it's very hard for them to distinguish.
    - NullPrefix 6y ago
      Yeah, sorry, I've misunderstood niutech's statement. Somewhy I tought that niutech meant that Go-Whatsapp and Matrix bridge are byte to byte indentical, not Go-Whatsapp and official web client.