6 ms·

France lobbies G8 for Internet control and censorship

76 points by Tsiolkovsky 15y ago

tttp 15y ago
France had an unfortunate history of self censorship from the media and active control of the public media from the president(de Gaulle that controlled the only TV channel, Mitterand ordering illegal wiretapping of journalists) The actual french President is a control freak. Sarkozy has strong relationship with most of the private media owners and is using it. He has since the start of his mandate tried to control the internet eg. http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2009/may/13/france-three-strikes http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2009/may/13/france... He is (ab)using a common view in France that speech should be controlled and freedom of speech isn't absolute. For instance, it is illegal to make xenophobic or racists comments. La quandrature du net is doing a good job of exposing the latest of his attacks and, hopefully public pressure can shame him out of his willingness to control everything. He likes the French motto of "Liberty, equality fraternity". If enough people see him trying to replace the first one by censorship, he might be less aggressively trying. Fortunately, his approval rate is record low, part of this is likely due to his abuse of power and willingness to control everything. Unfortunately, the best opposant is currently accused of sexual abuse. Then, another member of the G8 is Italy, with Berlusconi as the president.... Interesting countries, all in all.
- Typhon 15y ago
  >actual The word you're looking for is "current". Let's have a little patience. We're getting rid of Sarkozy soon enough, but we need to find a suitable replacement. There's the rub.
  - nuxi 15y ago
    > The word you're looking for is "current". "Actual" is a synonym for "current".
    - phaet0n 15y ago
      Sure, it's a synonym, but usage dictates it's incorrect to say "actual President" when you mean "current President", whereas "actual situation" is okay. The original context the writer is most certainly French where actuel means current, however the usage generates a false cognate.
    - sylvinus 15y ago
      no it's not? http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/actual http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/actual
      - swombat 15y ago
        In french, it's actually (!) more common to say "actuel" than "courrant". So I'm guessing the OP speaks french as a native language...?
        tttp 15y ago
        Albeit spending most of my time speaking/thinking English, I'd have to confirm that French is my mother tongue. Well, swiss French, but close enough ;) And I meant to write about the current president indeed.
        swombat 15y ago
        Small world! Swiss french here too. (grew up in Geneva)
      - nuxi 15y ago
        I'm not a native English speaker (nor French), but other English dictionaries have "existing now or current" as one of the definitions for "actual": http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/actual?show=0&t=1306065182 http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/actual?show=0&... http://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_gb0007040#m_en_gb0007040 http://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_gb0007040#m_en... http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/actual http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/actual http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=actual&tbs=dfn:1&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=J_jYTceZO4Gf-Qav4JWfDw&ved=0CB4QkQ4 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=actual&tbs=dfn:... http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/actual http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/actual http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?lextype=3&search=actual http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/Dictionary...
- nkassis 15y ago
  You forgot Canada with Harper's government which is actively trying to push legislation that would allow the government to spy on internet traffic. So with Russia that's 4-8 G8 countries I'm pretty sure the other 4 are probably in league with this type of crap. No way to win.
  - nazar 15y ago
    I don't think Russia needs approval from from G8 to control the internet traffic. I am not from Russia, but from one of the post soviet countries, so I can assure you things are run differently over here. Russia might seem to be one of the most democratic countries (among post soviet countries), but from the inside it is completely another story.
- notaddicted 15y ago
  Freedom of speech isn't a law of nature, and it wasn't handed down from God or whomever. In the United States it is provided by the Constitution. In Canada we have the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and hate speech is forbidden, for example, members of the Westboro Baptist Church are banned from Canada.
  - DrJokepu 15y ago
    Actually, the US constitution does not provide any rights, it does assume that Freedom of Speech and other rights are inherently ours and it only limits the powers of the federal government.
    - ugh 15y ago
      Isn’t that a distinction without a difference?
  - tttp 15y ago
    Didn't mean to imply it was, but in the US, it seems to be more permissive (ie. no matter how stupid and outrageous, you can say it) than in France. That's a general attitude about what is "allowed" to be said in the public sphere (a bit of a generalisation, but mostly confirmed on my biased sample of people I know on both countries). eg. when Chomsky said that Faurisson had the right to write whatever crap he wanted (ie. pro freedom of speech), it was widely understood in France as a support of Faurisson's theories (Haulocaust denial) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faurisson_affair http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faurisson_affair Which is rather ironic in a country where Voltaire is said to have written "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
guard-of-terra 15y ago
"(and not just Russia)" Interesting angle, considering that article doesn't mention Russia anywhere else nor links to anything which does.
- kiiski 15y ago
  Russia is the evil country by default.
  - gbog 15y ago
    I thought it was China.
    - pluies 15y ago
      But China isn't part of the G8.
cheez 15y ago
Patricians want to control the plebs. Yawn. Wake me up when humans are not power hungry.
mattraibert 15y ago
There is not a shred of content in this article. The beginning restates the title and introduces a quotation that restates it several more times.
loy22 15y ago
As a French I don't vote anymore. The truth is that Freedom is incompatible with having full time elected people at all scales of the society, since they need to justify their work by taking all kinds of unsollicited stances and intempestive measures. Left or Right ? Both of them will spend the most of their time fulfulling their purpose : to make new laws. Generally on a wide range of topics they don't understand (not only the Internet). Unfortunately, the blank vote isn't recognized in France: abstention is the best option. So far, no political party suggests that we drastically reduce the number and power of representatives.
- keane 15y ago
  I think your stance should be commended. However, while they do say "We want full time parliamentary elected representatives, free to set their own agenda, free to control the country's budget, free to debate all public issues...", what are your thoughts on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Alternative http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Alternative ?
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - loy22 15y ago
    In the age of the web, we have the power to make democracy more direct. I also believe we don't need so much statemen whose daily job is to make new laws. A strong and centralized state is mandatory during war, and that's it. In aviation, a lot of crashes could have been avoided if the captain released the commands instead of desperatly hook on them, because the plane is programmed to get back on its feets alone. It think it would be the same for our governments, people would be really surprised to see that the world wouldn't collapse if you removed the bulk of our elected and non-elected statemen. We give them too much credits. The industrial revolution happened in spite of them rather than thanks to them, that's why every western european country encountered about the same progress overall with different political systems. Unless a certain amount of freedom was missing, progress grew naturally. Thats what happening right now with the Internet.
omouse 15y ago
Ah, the G8 and G20, only getting things done that benefit everyone at the top. These meetings are meetings for collusion, none of the leaders represent the actual values of voters.
tluyben2 15y ago
Italy + France trying to get some of glory back they once had. Wanting to have the success Germany has had these past years. Problem is that Germans like quality and working while the French, Italians, Spanish, Portugese and Greek do not. The latter countries protest against unemployment (???), higher pensions ages and higher taxes. They waste time instead of working for their countries to get better. Then get in a few corrupt presidents who like to be popular instead of running/saving their countries (give me Merkel any day over those imbeciles in FR/IT/ES). France needs to do something to get it's former glory back, so yeah, why not try to get 'control' over the internet? Disclaimer: I live in NL/FR/ES, not in Germany. I spent a lot of time in all 4, although my main country is NL; the Spanish and French are just lazy. Nothing else to say about it; they really do not want to work, just maintain their level of comfort. Come on; protesting unemployment? They want cushy jobs from the government in government run facilities so they cannot get fired. What crazy attitude is that? /endrant Edit: downvoters; reply and tell what's wrong with this; I live(d) in all these countries; I know the people and I know the mindset. Most inhabitants agree with these sentiments. Maybe you (hopefully you live in one?) don't, but you can have the decency to reply he?
- mattmanser 15y ago
  It's xenophobic, that's why. Just because you've lived there doesn't make it any better.
- dexen 15y ago
  Your contribution sounds like repeating common stereotypes. Now we all know stereotypes often have a grain of truth to them, but nonetheless it's useless to use them as argumentats. At any rate, protesting unemployment can be understood in various ways. Suppose the protester's postulates were: less taxation on small business, simplier laws to ease running small businesses, wide-ranging education on running own business, a bit of import/export protection -- now that'd make some sense, right? The thing about unemployment is that you can't just stand up and work on something and then sell it -- aside of labor (what you have), you need capital (both liquid assets and infrastructure) and enought knowledge to pull bargaining with (parts, materials) vendors and customers as well as to navigate the legal framework.

76 points by Tsiolkovsky 15y ago

tttp 15y ago

France had an unfortunate history of self censorship from the media and active control of the public media from the president(de Gaulle that controlled the only TV channel, Mitterand ordering illegal wiretapping of journalists) The actual french President is a control freak. Sarkozy has strong relationship with most of the private media owners and is using it. He has since the start of his mandate tried to control the internet eg. http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2009/may/13/france-three-strikes http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2009/may/13/france... He is (ab)using a common view in France that speech should be controlled and freedom of speech isn't absolute. For instance, it is illegal to make xenophobic or racists comments. La quandrature du net is doing a good job of exposing the latest of his attacks and, hopefully public pressure can shame him out of his willingness to control everything. He likes the French motto of "Liberty, equality fraternity". If enough people see him trying to replace the first one by censorship, he might be less aggressively trying. Fortunately, his approval rate is record low, part of this is likely due to his abuse of power and willingness to control everything. Unfortunately, the best opposant is currently accused of sexual abuse. Then, another member of the G8 is Italy, with Berlusconi as the president.... Interesting countries, all in all.

Typhon 15y ago
>actual The word you're looking for is "current". Let's have a little patience. We're getting rid of Sarkozy soon enough, but we need to find a suitable replacement. There's the rub.
- nuxi 15y ago
  > The word you're looking for is "current". "Actual" is a synonym for "current".
  - phaet0n 15y ago
    Sure, it's a synonym, but usage dictates it's incorrect to say "actual President" when you mean "current President", whereas "actual situation" is okay. The original context the writer is most certainly French where actuel means current, however the usage generates a false cognate.
  - sylvinus 15y ago
    no it's not? http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/actual http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/actual
    - swombat 15y ago
      In french, it's actually (!) more common to say "actuel" than "courrant". So I'm guessing the OP speaks french as a native language...?
      - tttp 15y ago
        Albeit spending most of my time speaking/thinking English, I'd have to confirm that French is my mother tongue. Well, swiss French, but close enough ;) And I meant to write about the current president indeed.
        swombat 15y ago
        Small world! Swiss french here too. (grew up in Geneva)
    - nuxi 15y ago
      I'm not a native English speaker (nor French), but other English dictionaries have "existing now or current" as one of the definitions for "actual": http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/actual?show=0&t=1306065182 http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/actual?show=0&... http://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_gb0007040#m_en_gb0007040 http://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_gb0007040#m_en... http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/actual http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/actual http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=actual&tbs=dfn:1&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=J_jYTceZO4Gf-Qav4JWfDw&ved=0CB4QkQ4 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=actual&tbs=dfn:... http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/actual http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/actual http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?lextype=3&search=actual http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/Dictionary...
nkassis 15y ago
You forgot Canada with Harper's government which is actively trying to push legislation that would allow the government to spy on internet traffic. So with Russia that's 4-8 G8 countries I'm pretty sure the other 4 are probably in league with this type of crap. No way to win.
- nazar 15y ago
  I don't think Russia needs approval from from G8 to control the internet traffic. I am not from Russia, but from one of the post soviet countries, so I can assure you things are run differently over here. Russia might seem to be one of the most democratic countries (among post soviet countries), but from the inside it is completely another story.
notaddicted 15y ago
Freedom of speech isn't a law of nature, and it wasn't handed down from God or whomever. In the United States it is provided by the Constitution. In Canada we have the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and hate speech is forbidden, for example, members of the Westboro Baptist Church are banned from Canada.
- DrJokepu 15y ago
  Actually, the US constitution does not provide any rights, it does assume that Freedom of Speech and other rights are inherently ours and it only limits the powers of the federal government.
  - ugh 15y ago
    Isn’t that a distinction without a difference?
- tttp 15y ago
  Didn't mean to imply it was, but in the US, it seems to be more permissive (ie. no matter how stupid and outrageous, you can say it) than in France. That's a general attitude about what is "allowed" to be said in the public sphere (a bit of a generalisation, but mostly confirmed on my biased sample of people I know on both countries). eg. when Chomsky said that Faurisson had the right to write whatever crap he wanted (ie. pro freedom of speech), it was widely understood in France as a support of Faurisson's theories (Haulocaust denial) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faurisson_affair http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faurisson_affair Which is rather ironic in a country where Voltaire is said to have written "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".

guard-of-terra 15y ago

"(and not just Russia)" Interesting angle, considering that article doesn't mention Russia anywhere else nor links to anything which does.

kiiski 15y ago
Russia is the evil country by default.
- gbog 15y ago
  I thought it was China.
  - pluies 15y ago
    But China isn't part of the G8.

cheez 15y ago

Patricians want to control the plebs. Yawn. Wake me up when humans are not power hungry.

mattraibert 15y ago

There is not a shred of content in this article. The beginning restates the title and introduces a quotation that restates it several more times.

loy22 15y ago

As a French I don't vote anymore. The truth is that Freedom is incompatible with having full time elected people at all scales of the society, since they need to justify their work by taking all kinds of unsollicited stances and intempestive measures. Left or Right ? Both of them will spend the most of their time fulfulling their purpose : to make new laws. Generally on a wide range of topics they don't understand (not only the Internet). Unfortunately, the blank vote isn't recognized in France: abstention is the best option. So far, no political party suggests that we drastically reduce the number and power of representatives.

keane 15y ago
I think your stance should be commended. However, while they do say "We want full time parliamentary elected representatives, free to set their own agenda, free to control the country's budget, free to debate all public issues...", what are your thoughts on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Alternative http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Alternative ?
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- loy22 15y ago
  In the age of the web, we have the power to make democracy more direct. I also believe we don't need so much statemen whose daily job is to make new laws. A strong and centralized state is mandatory during war, and that's it. In aviation, a lot of crashes could have been avoided if the captain released the commands instead of desperatly hook on them, because the plane is programmed to get back on its feets alone. It think it would be the same for our governments, people would be really surprised to see that the world wouldn't collapse if you removed the bulk of our elected and non-elected statemen. We give them too much credits. The industrial revolution happened in spite of them rather than thanks to them, that's why every western european country encountered about the same progress overall with different political systems. Unless a certain amount of freedom was missing, progress grew naturally. Thats what happening right now with the Internet.

omouse 15y ago

Ah, the G8 and G20, only getting things done that benefit everyone at the top. These meetings are meetings for collusion, none of the leaders represent the actual values of voters.

tluyben2 15y ago

Italy + France trying to get some of glory back they once had. Wanting to have the success Germany has had these past years. Problem is that Germans like quality and working while the French, Italians, Spanish, Portugese and Greek do not. The latter countries protest against unemployment (???), higher pensions ages and higher taxes. They waste time instead of working for their countries to get better. Then get in a few corrupt presidents who like to be popular instead of running/saving their countries (give me Merkel any day over those imbeciles in FR/IT/ES). France needs to do something to get it's former glory back, so yeah, why not try to get 'control' over the internet? Disclaimer: I live in NL/FR/ES, not in Germany. I spent a lot of time in all 4, although my main country is NL; the Spanish and French are just lazy. Nothing else to say about it; they really do not want to work, just maintain their level of comfort. Come on; protesting unemployment? They want cushy jobs from the government in government run facilities so they cannot get fired. What crazy attitude is that? /endrant Edit: downvoters; reply and tell what's wrong with this; I live(d) in all these countries; I know the people and I know the mindset. Most inhabitants agree with these sentiments. Maybe you (hopefully you live in one?) don't, but you can have the decency to reply he?

mattmanser 15y ago
It's xenophobic, that's why. Just because you've lived there doesn't make it any better.
dexen 15y ago
Your contribution sounds like repeating common stereotypes. Now we all know stereotypes often have a grain of truth to them, but nonetheless it's useless to use them as argumentats. At any rate, protesting unemployment can be understood in various ways. Suppose the protester's postulates were: less taxation on small business, simplier laws to ease running small businesses, wide-ranging education on running own business, a bit of import/export protection -- now that'd make some sense, right? The thing about unemployment is that you can't just stand up and work on something and then sell it -- aside of labor (what you have), you need capital (both liquid assets and infrastructure) and enought knowledge to pull bargaining with (parts, materials) vendors and customers as well as to navigate the legal framework.