5 ms·

Did you have a problem with Twitter banning ISIS propaganda pages and recruiters?

by eightysixfour 6y ago

mc32 6y ago
Do you have a problem with Twitter banning foreign enemies?
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  I think that was precisely their point?
  - mc32 6y ago
    I’m asking for a stance. I think in a democratic society we accept certain structures and laws. If the government declares a group an enemy of the state, then I think it’s fair to comply with that law. Making your own laws is not though. However, just the other day there was hooplah about GitHub not allowing access from Iran. So it’s like people want to eat their cake and also have it.
    - alpaca128 6y ago
      Twitter doesn't make their own laws. They have a privately owned platform and can choose how to manage it to some degree. Just like a restaurant can kick you out if you don't act responsibly. It might be different if Twitter had a monopoly on social networks, but that's not the case.
    - eightysixfour 6y ago
      I think this is actually a great point because it shows how much grey there is in something you're trying to make black and white. China is not declared a foreign enemy by law and yet the US government is actively using banning and sanctioning their otherwise legally operating companies. If they're not a foreign enemy, do they not have rights in the US? This whole thing is only shades of grey. Pretending it is black and white makes an honest conversation about it impossible.
      - mc32 6y ago
        The China situation is complicated by the unfair nature of commerce with them. They can ban Twitter. Google etc. Rip off IP and so on. So while not an enemy, they do engage in anticompetitive activities and we should counter them.
        eightysixfour 6y ago
        But what if our companies are breaking Chinese law (like, not filtering searches), and that's why they've been banned?
        mc32 6y ago
        It’s true and in that case unless it breaks US law, these companies should comply with local regulation. Now that becomes complicated when you deal with authoritarian regimes whose local laws may significantly violate international law (severe human rights violations, etc). But that’s only half the deal. The other are the one sided onerous and coercive terms applied to foreign/international companies. There are two main possibilities of why Google almost pulled out completely from China. One was safeguarding IP, the other is that at the time they cared a bit more about their ideals.
  - leereeves 6y ago
    >> Do you have a problem with Twitter banning foreign enemies? > I think that was precisely their point? Is China our enemy?
FentanylFloyd 6y ago
terrorism, and recruiting for terrorists is against the law
himinlomax 6y ago
I have a problem with people who believe this propaganda had any net effect, except for railing up some people (which probably was the intent.)
- simlevesque 6y ago
  How can you say that when there are hundreds of confirmed cases of ISIS radicalizing people from the internet ? Why do you have a problem believing that ?
  - himinlomax 6y ago
    Are there? Was it through Twitter? In all likelihood what you're talking about is some random semi-private forum that's going to fly under the radar anyway. And you have that big, huge number: hundreds, not mere dozens, hundreds! My oh my, that's a scary army right there. How many suicide bombers have the harassment by ISrael of the illegally occupied territories population created? And with this joke of an army is good enough to kill free speech on the net. That's almost as tragically comical as the floatsam in the Gulf of Tonkin that caused millions of deaths, but it's happening right now.
    - eightysixfour 6y ago
      Yes, and yes. You can find numerous examples where Twitter in particular was the method of recruitment. Here is one: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/northern-va-teen-admits-running-pro-islamic-state-twitter-and-helping-man-join-terrorist-group/2015/06/11/1d0cb33e-0eef-11e5-9726-49d6fa26a8c6_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/northern-va-teen-...
- vladTheInhaler 6y ago
  Language is how we construct our shared reality. When you let language like this go unchallenged, it gives legitimacy to the worldview it endorses.
  - 6y ago

Did you have a problem with Twitter banning ISIS propaganda pages and recruiters?

mc32 6y ago

Do you have a problem with Twitter banning foreign enemies?

ceejayoz 6y ago
I think that was precisely their point?
- mc32 6y ago
  I’m asking for a stance. I think in a democratic society we accept certain structures and laws. If the government declares a group an enemy of the state, then I think it’s fair to comply with that law. Making your own laws is not though. However, just the other day there was hooplah about GitHub not allowing access from Iran. So it’s like people want to eat their cake and also have it.
  - alpaca128 6y ago
    Twitter doesn't make their own laws. They have a privately owned platform and can choose how to manage it to some degree. Just like a restaurant can kick you out if you don't act responsibly. It might be different if Twitter had a monopoly on social networks, but that's not the case.
  - eightysixfour 6y ago
    I think this is actually a great point because it shows how much grey there is in something you're trying to make black and white. China is not declared a foreign enemy by law and yet the US government is actively using banning and sanctioning their otherwise legally operating companies. If they're not a foreign enemy, do they not have rights in the US? This whole thing is only shades of grey. Pretending it is black and white makes an honest conversation about it impossible.
    - mc32 6y ago
      The China situation is complicated by the unfair nature of commerce with them. They can ban Twitter. Google etc. Rip off IP and so on. So while not an enemy, they do engage in anticompetitive activities and we should counter them.
      - eightysixfour 6y ago
        But what if our companies are breaking Chinese law (like, not filtering searches), and that's why they've been banned?
        mc32 6y ago
        It’s true and in that case unless it breaks US law, these companies should comply with local regulation. Now that becomes complicated when you deal with authoritarian regimes whose local laws may significantly violate international law (severe human rights violations, etc). But that’s only half the deal. The other are the one sided onerous and coercive terms applied to foreign/international companies. There are two main possibilities of why Google almost pulled out completely from China. One was safeguarding IP, the other is that at the time they cared a bit more about their ideals.
- leereeves 6y ago
  >> Do you have a problem with Twitter banning foreign enemies? > I think that was precisely their point? Is China our enemy?

FentanylFloyd 6y ago

terrorism, and recruiting for terrorists is against the law

himinlomax 6y ago

I have a problem with people who believe this propaganda had any net effect, except for railing up some people (which probably was the intent.)

simlevesque 6y ago
How can you say that when there are hundreds of confirmed cases of ISIS radicalizing people from the internet ? Why do you have a problem believing that ?
- himinlomax 6y ago
  Are there? Was it through Twitter? In all likelihood what you're talking about is some random semi-private forum that's going to fly under the radar anyway. And you have that big, huge number: hundreds, not mere dozens, hundreds! My oh my, that's a scary army right there. How many suicide bombers have the harassment by ISrael of the illegally occupied territories population created? And with this joke of an army is good enough to kill free speech on the net. That's almost as tragically comical as the floatsam in the Gulf of Tonkin that caused millions of deaths, but it's happening right now.
  - eightysixfour 6y ago
    Yes, and yes. You can find numerous examples where Twitter in particular was the method of recruitment. Here is one: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/northern-va-teen-admits-running-pro-islamic-state-twitter-and-helping-man-join-terrorist-group/2015/06/11/1d0cb33e-0eef-11e5-9726-49d6fa26a8c6_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/northern-va-teen-...
vladTheInhaler 6y ago
Language is how we construct our shared reality. When you let language like this go unchallenged, it gives legitimacy to the worldview it endorses.
- 6y ago