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Work ethics and culture differs wildly around the world - and can obviously result in different levels of productivity. What I like about the Nordic countries,

Work ethics and culture differs wildly around the world - and can obviously result in different levels of productivity. What I like about the Nordic countries, is that workers there are productive. When they're at work, they work - but at the same time, they have a healthy relationship to their workplace, due to strong workers rights / laws. Another thing to keep in mind, is that social conformity there, is on par with countries like Japan. In some countries, you're almost applauded if you manage to screw over your boss / company, by simply getting paid without doing much at all. For many, it's the dream situation - to just clock in at work, do nothing, get paid, and go home. That's not at all the case in the Nordic countries, where you're expected to work hard and produce. Strong sense of work ethic, labor laws, balanced with expectations of healthy work/life balance. (But with that said, there are some serious drawbacks. If your only goal is to accumulate as much wealth as possible, at all costs, and as quickly as possible - Nordic countries is not the right place, IMO).

ChuckNorris89 6y ago
>That's not at all the case in the Nordic countries, where you're expected to work hard and produce. After working in both Germany and The Netherlands I found this to be false as it depends more by company size rather than the country. In SMEs or family owned businesses people were busting their asses, often longer than 40h/week. In giant megacorps I saw plenty of incompetent clockwatchers, mostly in management positions, where the business could function the same without them but they were inexplicably kept around, at least as long as the business was booming. Often times they would just have their teams switch offices so they would have something to put in their annual performance review ("I optimized personell location, fostering a culture of synergy and creativity leading to future improvements in productivity and innovation").
- distances 6y ago
  Neither Germany nor Netherlands belongs to the Nordic countries though?
  - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
    They're not part of Scandinavia, no, but geographically and economically Netherlands and Germany (at least the northern part close to Denmark) are also considered northern european (not to be confuse with The Nordics).
    - watwut 6y ago
      I never heard of Germany being Nordic country.
    - asdiovjdfi 6y ago
      BeNeLUx and Germany is not a part of the Nordics.
    - distances 6y ago
      "Nordic countries" is a very well defined group: Sweden, Finland, Norway, Denmark, and Iceland. Germany and Netherlands may be in Western or Central Europe depending on definition, but I've never heard of them being grouped to "Nordic".
- MrDresden 6y ago
  Icelander here. Germany and the Netherlands are in northern europe but are not part of the nordics. Nordic countries are (in no particular order); Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, Iceland. And since I am at it, only Sweden, Norway and Denmark are in Scandinavia.
bjornsing 6y ago
> If your only goal is to accumulate as much wealth as possible, at all costs, and as quickly as possible - Nordic countries is not the right place, IMO. If that was the only drawback then that would be great. But there are many other problems. One is that it’s very hard to save up money and start a business or retire early. Another is that you see very little “high risk / high reward” economic activity, like really innovative companies. It’s a system that definitely has strong benefits if you live in “the mainstream of society”, but at the same time can feel like “halfway on the road to serfdom”, especially if live a bit differently and don’t really value the benefits. Source: I’m a Swede living in Sweden since forty+ years.
- tziki 6y ago
  >Another is that you see very little “high risk / high reward” economic activity, like really innovative companies This doesn't seem to be true. Nordic countries rank very high in terms of startup ecosystems and startups per capita.
  - bjornsing 6y ago
    There’s a lot of startups in Sweden but they seem relatively “low risk / low reward” and less innovative compared to Silicon Valley. You definitely don’t see the really ambitious stuff, like SpaceX or OpenAI and stuff like that. I suspect that if you looked at the whole distribution it would be shifted towards “low risk / low reward”. That can be said for most of the world though, so I admit it’s not a very strong argument.
    - Jommi 6y ago
      I thin kyou're looking at pretty much the wrong variables here if you want to see SpaceX and OpenAI. Sweden is a country of 10M while USA has 330M and constant influx of brain power. Its more likely related to that than anything else. Not to mention the couner argument that in a nordic society you are more able to live through life worry free, which according to some people is the key for innovation.
stiray 6y ago
> In some countries, you're almost applauded if you manage to screw over your boss / company, by simply getting paid without doing much at all. For many, it's the dream situation - to just clock in at work, do nothing, get paid, and go home. I think that this is direct result of exploitation of workers - devaluated work and very low wages regarding to the amount of work you are expected to do. People are normally trying to improve their life situation and if there is no perspective, they try to make the improvement by minimizing the work done. If they are miserably paid they will "raise the wage" by doing less for that money and I think that this correlates with all the places where I have observed this behavior.
- ChuckNorris89 6y ago
  >If they are miserably paid they will "raise the wage" by doing less for that money Which is what I'm doing right now. If the company wants us to be motivated they should incentivize us by sharing equity or let us leave early if we complete our work faster but since my pay will stay the same if I work harder and I'm mandated to stay the full 40h/week at my desk even though I can finish my work sooner, why would I bother working harder?

ChuckNorris89 6y ago

>That's not at all the case in the Nordic countries, where you're expected to work hard and produce. After working in both Germany and The Netherlands I found this to be false as it depends more by company size rather than the country. In SMEs or family owned businesses people were busting their asses, often longer than 40h/week. In giant megacorps I saw plenty of incompetent clockwatchers, mostly in management positions, where the business could function the same without them but they were inexplicably kept around, at least as long as the business was booming. Often times they would just have their teams switch offices so they would have something to put in their annual performance review ("I optimized personell location, fostering a culture of synergy and creativity leading to future improvements in productivity and innovation").

distances 6y ago
Neither Germany nor Netherlands belongs to the Nordic countries though?
- ChuckNorris89 6y ago
  They're not part of Scandinavia, no, but geographically and economically Netherlands and Germany (at least the northern part close to Denmark) are also considered northern european (not to be confuse with The Nordics).
  - watwut 6y ago
    I never heard of Germany being Nordic country.
  - asdiovjdfi 6y ago
    BeNeLUx and Germany is not a part of the Nordics.
  - distances 6y ago
    "Nordic countries" is a very well defined group: Sweden, Finland, Norway, Denmark, and Iceland. Germany and Netherlands may be in Western or Central Europe depending on definition, but I've never heard of them being grouped to "Nordic".
MrDresden 6y ago
Icelander here. Germany and the Netherlands are in northern europe but are not part of the nordics. Nordic countries are (in no particular order); Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, Iceland. And since I am at it, only Sweden, Norway and Denmark are in Scandinavia.

bjornsing 6y ago

> If your only goal is to accumulate as much wealth as possible, at all costs, and as quickly as possible - Nordic countries is not the right place, IMO. If that was the only drawback then that would be great. But there are many other problems. One is that it’s very hard to save up money and start a business or retire early. Another is that you see very little “high risk / high reward” economic activity, like really innovative companies. It’s a system that definitely has strong benefits if you live in “the mainstream of society”, but at the same time can feel like “halfway on the road to serfdom”, especially if live a bit differently and don’t really value the benefits. Source: I’m a Swede living in Sweden since forty+ years.

tziki 6y ago
>Another is that you see very little “high risk / high reward” economic activity, like really innovative companies This doesn't seem to be true. Nordic countries rank very high in terms of startup ecosystems and startups per capita.
- bjornsing 6y ago
  There’s a lot of startups in Sweden but they seem relatively “low risk / low reward” and less innovative compared to Silicon Valley. You definitely don’t see the really ambitious stuff, like SpaceX or OpenAI and stuff like that. I suspect that if you looked at the whole distribution it would be shifted towards “low risk / low reward”. That can be said for most of the world though, so I admit it’s not a very strong argument.
  - Jommi 6y ago
    I thin kyou're looking at pretty much the wrong variables here if you want to see SpaceX and OpenAI. Sweden is a country of 10M while USA has 330M and constant influx of brain power. Its more likely related to that than anything else. Not to mention the couner argument that in a nordic society you are more able to live through life worry free, which according to some people is the key for innovation.

stiray 6y ago

> In some countries, you're almost applauded if you manage to screw over your boss / company, by simply getting paid without doing much at all. For many, it's the dream situation - to just clock in at work, do nothing, get paid, and go home. I think that this is direct result of exploitation of workers - devaluated work and very low wages regarding to the amount of work you are expected to do. People are normally trying to improve their life situation and if there is no perspective, they try to make the improvement by minimizing the work done. If they are miserably paid they will "raise the wage" by doing less for that money and I think that this correlates with all the places where I have observed this behavior.

ChuckNorris89 6y ago
>If they are miserably paid they will "raise the wage" by doing less for that money Which is what I'm doing right now. If the company wants us to be motivated they should incentivize us by sharing equity or let us leave early if we complete our work faster but since my pay will stay the same if I work harder and I'm mandated to stay the full 40h/week at my desk even though I can finish my work sooner, why would I bother working harder?