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I think the question is badly formulated. "When" will you use math implies that, no matter what, you will end up using it. This is simply not true. The vast maj

by zeteo 15y ago

I think the question is badly formulated. "When" will you use math implies that, no matter what, you will end up using it. This is simply not true. The vast majority of jobs out there, from flipping burgers to fixing toilets, involve nothing except the most basic arithmetic. I think a much better answer is: if you learn math, you will have plenty of opportunity to use it. It's the only way to become qualified for some very good kinds of jobs.

stcredzero 15y ago
The vast majority of jobs out there, from flipping burgers to fixing toilets, involve nothing except the most basic arithmetic. I remember working as a busboy in a diner in Alaska in the early 90's and applying queueing theory and Little's Law. Miraculously, I efficiently had tables ready for the waitresses when they needed them, and they liked me for this and gave me great tips. A girlfriend of mine told me about doing the same sorts of optimizations intuitively while working as a take-out order taker at McDonalds. Her manager loved her, because she always cleared out the queue quickly. She later went on to medical school and is now a doctor. I also remember trying to order from a McDonald's some years later on a road trip and noting that everyone behind the counter was consistently waiting 2 or 3 on line on the same station. It took me a full 15 minutes to get my order! If you want to see the result of people being sheep and losing out because they aren't applying such knowledge, just go and take a drive during a busy time on a Houston freeway when people are merging and taking offramps. People consistently make the worst choice. A small minority do egregiously bad things.
- zeteo 15y ago
  I should have been more clear and said "require" instead of "involve". Yes, math can improve almost anything, but you can do an acceptable job at McD with no math knowledge. Still, it's a McD job, and if you had learnt some math then you could have found something a lot better.
  - stcredzero 15y ago
    Yes, math can improve almost anything, but you can do an acceptable job at McD with no math knowledge. The optimally suboptimal queueing at that one place was not acceptable! Still, as my ex demonstrated, you can manage the same optimality at that job just be being observant and using common sense. The human brain is a pretty powerful general optimizer. Math is most useful in situations where data is not so accessible to a casual observer. The problem in those situations, is that the optimization itself then becomes harder to observe/explain/comprehend. There is a similar problem in large enterprises with automated testing and refactoring. Still, it's a McD job, and if you had learnt some math then you could have found something a lot better. Well, in Homer Alaska at the time, from my vantage point, it would've been some more machismo so the right person would give me a job as a forklift driver, some cooking experience, so I could get a job doing that, or maybe some more muscle -- all those would've done a lot more to get me a higher paying job than math.
    - zeteo 15y ago
      "some more machismo [...], some cooking experience [...] or maybe some more muscle -- all those would've done a lot more to get me a higher paying job than math." In the short run.
      - stcredzero 15y ago
        Well, for that, I had the prospect of saving enough money from the diner busboy job so that I could drive back to the lower 48 and grad school.
- MaysonL 15y ago
  I wonder how much money someone could make as a consultant, teaching McDonald's employees the basics of queue theory as applicable to their jobs? Try talking to a few McD franchise owners.
- reledi 15y ago
  I don't think it's the responsibility of the people who work in customer service to be applying math to their job if it's not required. Sure it may help if the organization doesn't use math to optimize operations, but for non-math jobs I think it's the responsibility of the corporation to enforce any applications of math.

by zeteo 15y ago

stcredzero 15y ago

The vast majority of jobs out there, from flipping burgers to fixing toilets, involve nothing except the most basic arithmetic. I remember working as a busboy in a diner in Alaska in the early 90's and applying queueing theory and Little's Law. Miraculously, I efficiently had tables ready for the waitresses when they needed them, and they liked me for this and gave me great tips. A girlfriend of mine told me about doing the same sorts of optimizations intuitively while working as a take-out order taker at McDonalds. Her manager loved her, because she always cleared out the queue quickly. She later went on to medical school and is now a doctor. I also remember trying to order from a McDonald's some years later on a road trip and noting that everyone behind the counter was consistently waiting 2 or 3 on line on the same station. It took me a full 15 minutes to get my order! If you want to see the result of people being sheep and losing out because they aren't applying such knowledge, just go and take a drive during a busy time on a Houston freeway when people are merging and taking offramps. People consistently make the worst choice. A small minority do egregiously bad things.

zeteo 15y ago
I should have been more clear and said "require" instead of "involve". Yes, math can improve almost anything, but you can do an acceptable job at McD with no math knowledge. Still, it's a McD job, and if you had learnt some math then you could have found something a lot better.
- stcredzero 15y ago
  Yes, math can improve almost anything, but you can do an acceptable job at McD with no math knowledge. The optimally suboptimal queueing at that one place was not acceptable! Still, as my ex demonstrated, you can manage the same optimality at that job just be being observant and using common sense. The human brain is a pretty powerful general optimizer. Math is most useful in situations where data is not so accessible to a casual observer. The problem in those situations, is that the optimization itself then becomes harder to observe/explain/comprehend. There is a similar problem in large enterprises with automated testing and refactoring. Still, it's a McD job, and if you had learnt some math then you could have found something a lot better. Well, in Homer Alaska at the time, from my vantage point, it would've been some more machismo so the right person would give me a job as a forklift driver, some cooking experience, so I could get a job doing that, or maybe some more muscle -- all those would've done a lot more to get me a higher paying job than math.
  - zeteo 15y ago
    "some more machismo [...], some cooking experience [...] or maybe some more muscle -- all those would've done a lot more to get me a higher paying job than math." In the short run.
    - stcredzero 15y ago
      Well, for that, I had the prospect of saving enough money from the diner busboy job so that I could drive back to the lower 48 and grad school.
MaysonL 15y ago
I wonder how much money someone could make as a consultant, teaching McDonald's employees the basics of queue theory as applicable to their jobs? Try talking to a few McD franchise owners.
reledi 15y ago
I don't think it's the responsibility of the people who work in customer service to be applying math to their job if it's not required. Sure it may help if the organization doesn't use math to optimize operations, but for non-math jobs I think it's the responsibility of the corporation to enforce any applications of math.