9 ms·

Twitter thread – What was learnt from deplatforming ISIS

45 points by iamacyborg 6y ago

wtallis 6y ago
Normally a submission like this would be much better presented as a blog post rather than a string of tweets. But given the content, Twitter does seem to be the right place to publish this. Still, for the sake of easier reading: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1348147867739975681.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1348147867739975681.html
diveanon 6y ago
Politics aside, I think twitter has some of the worst UX on the web. To this day I don't understand how people actually get useful information out of this nightmare.
- curiousgal 6y ago
  To me any information posted in that form is rendered useless and I refuse to accept it as serious.
- MattGaiser 6y ago
  > To this day I don't understand how people actually get useful information out of this nightmare. You assume that they routinely do.
- tiagod 6y ago
  Why must every single tweet posted in HN have (usually multiple) comments like this? It's a different way to communicate, just get over it, skip twitter submissions, or use one of many thread unroll apps.
  - diveanon 6y ago
    It's more about how such an objectively bad interface can be so popular. I'm genuinely curious if there is something good here that I am missing. And no, I'm not going to just get over it or install another app to compensate for it.
    - tiagod 6y ago
      > objectively bad interface Does such a thing exist? What is objectively bad about twitter's interface? I just think it's made for one thing (close to real-time communication), and you think it's should be good for another (review of old content).
      - diveanon 6y ago
        It fails at real time communication compared to competitors in that space (every chat client).
        gandalfgreybeer 6y ago
        I don’t think anyone uses Twitter as a chat client nor does it try to be one primarily.
    - iamacyborg 6y ago
      You’re confusing objectivity with subjectivity.
paganel 6y ago
Implicitly comparing a terrorist organisation like ISIS with a large chunk of the US electorate (more people have voted Trump the second time round compared to the first) it's pretty damn dangerous, nothing good can come out of it.
- loopz 6y ago
  Accountability for lies, deceit, fraudulent accusations, thuggery, incitement to mob rule and stopping a cult, are worthy goals. Politics need moderation from falsehoods and slander, and should be about policy, goals and reasons behind the projects.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - golergka 6y ago
    Are you talking about BLM?
    - loopz 6y ago
      No, how politicians need to act. BLM is a symptom to a systemic problem not rooted in politics explicitly.
- onion2k 6y ago
  Is that what's being done? For that to be the case you'd have to believe that all of the people who voted for Trump are in favor of the actions of the minority who stormed the Capitol and call for violence on platforms like Parler. That doesn't seem likely to me.
- Jonnax 6y ago
  So you're saying that a large chunk of Trump voters support the failed coup attempt? And that treating that as terrorism is a bad idea. Because they're going to get even angrier?
  - 6y ago
RcouF1uZ4gsC 6y ago
I think even more than deplatforming ISIS was the physical defeat of ISIS in the real world. If ISIS was still having success like it had when it started with quickly overrunning Iraq and establishing a "Caliphate" all the deplatforming in the world would not have mattered all that much. In the same vein, with regard to the alt-right, the big event that happened was that Trump both lost the election and the attack on Capitol Hill was a spectacular failure. The Senate and House voted overwhelmingly to certify the election. Joe Biden is going to be the next President. I imagine that if Trump had won re-election, or that somehow Congress had managed to nullify Biden's electoral votes and send it to House delegations that made Trump the winner, all the deplatforming would be pointless. Deplatforming combined with demoralizing defeats is probably synergistic and effective.
- neilsense 6y ago
  No, haven't you heard, it was Twitter's deplatforming that defeated ISIS
cletus 6y ago
Just say no to these attempts to post long form content as a series of tweets. What an abysmal UX. This is unreadable. It’s a shame because given the cognitive dissonance of the most diehard Trump supporters (eg anything to do with QAnon) the parallels to ISIS aren’t out of place as you might think. And is I think we have reached the point off deplatformatizing this particular brand of extremism and conspiracy theories.
crowf 6y ago
Intuitively I always assumed that deplatforming works (and similarly that the Streisand effect doesn't actually work, it's just survivor bias). My issue is that I don't trust Mark Zuckerberg, Jack Dorsey and other SV CEOs to decide what should be deplatformed. We see a lot of media around why white people are racist, bad and immoral people. Why don't we see that much media around how the wealthy class are greedy, bad and immoral? My guess is because while BLM, antifa and the like are promoted by most of the major media channels, groups like occupy wall street are being quieted.
- johnchristopher 6y ago
  > We see a lot of media around why white people are racist, bad and immoral people. Why don't we see that much media around how the wealthy class are greedy, bad and immoral? Imgur is full of posts about that. edit: filter bubble ?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- emilsedgh 6y ago
  We see a lot of media around why white people are racist, bad and immoral people. That seems horribly racist. I personally haven't seen such dumb arguments even on the internet. I've seen plenty of arguments about why "the system" is racist (or not) but that's not the same. Why don't we see that much media around how the wealthy class are greedy, bad and immoral? I don't think many people think that way to begin with. But there's plenty of class-based content on social networks. I cannot say I've ever seen them being deplatformed though.
  - golergka 6y ago
    You're right that it is horribly racist, but could you have not seen it? In left-leaning, democrat-favouring american media (which is most of it), it's everywhere.
  - edbob 6y ago
    > I personally haven't seen such dumb arguments even on the internet. A Critical Race Theory lecturer teaching that "All white people are racist" and "white people are born into not being human": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nupaP3IQwM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nupaP3IQwM Critical Race Theory is not just on the internet but receives government funding and is taught in schools. It's interesting that "white people are not human" doesn't seem to violate any content moderation policies, or perhaps it's merely selective enforcement. This makes it very hard to believe that censorship is anything other than a power grab for political purposes. We're closer than we've ever been to an ideal of racial equality. The last thing we need is a New Racism that glorifies racial hatred and segregation.
sleepysysadmin 6y ago
To be clear, ISIS deplatforming was ~6 years ago. This is in the context of ~200,000 republicans being banned from twitter. So placing context where due. This person is asserting republicans ~= ISIS. Though I do also realize Biden outright called Senator Cruz and some other senator Geobells. Senator cruz is a nazi propaganda minister. Which obviously makes Trump = Hitler.

45 points by iamacyborg 6y ago

Normally a submission like this would be much better presented as a blog post rather than a string of tweets. But given the content, Twitter does seem to be the right place to publish this. Still, for the sake of easier reading: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1348147867739975681.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1348147867739975681.html

diveanon 6y ago

Politics aside, I think twitter has some of the worst UX on the web. To this day I don't understand how people actually get useful information out of this nightmare.

curiousgal 6y ago
To me any information posted in that form is rendered useless and I refuse to accept it as serious.
MattGaiser 6y ago
> To this day I don't understand how people actually get useful information out of this nightmare. You assume that they routinely do.
tiagod 6y ago
Why must every single tweet posted in HN have (usually multiple) comments like this? It's a different way to communicate, just get over it, skip twitter submissions, or use one of many thread unroll apps.
- diveanon 6y ago
  It's more about how such an objectively bad interface can be so popular. I'm genuinely curious if there is something good here that I am missing. And no, I'm not going to just get over it or install another app to compensate for it.
  - tiagod 6y ago
    > objectively bad interface Does such a thing exist? What is objectively bad about twitter's interface? I just think it's made for one thing (close to real-time communication), and you think it's should be good for another (review of old content).
    - diveanon 6y ago
      It fails at real time communication compared to competitors in that space (every chat client).
      - gandalfgreybeer 6y ago
        I don’t think anyone uses Twitter as a chat client nor does it try to be one primarily.
  - iamacyborg 6y ago
    You’re confusing objectivity with subjectivity.

paganel 6y ago

Implicitly comparing a terrorist organisation like ISIS with a large chunk of the US electorate (more people have voted Trump the second time round compared to the first) it's pretty damn dangerous, nothing good can come out of it.

loopz 6y ago
Accountability for lies, deceit, fraudulent accusations, thuggery, incitement to mob rule and stopping a cult, are worthy goals. Politics need moderation from falsehoods and slander, and should be about policy, goals and reasons behind the projects.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- golergka 6y ago
  Are you talking about BLM?
  - loopz 6y ago
    No, how politicians need to act. BLM is a symptom to a systemic problem not rooted in politics explicitly.
onion2k 6y ago
Is that what's being done? For that to be the case you'd have to believe that all of the people who voted for Trump are in favor of the actions of the minority who stormed the Capitol and call for violence on platforms like Parler. That doesn't seem likely to me.
Jonnax 6y ago
So you're saying that a large chunk of Trump voters support the failed coup attempt? And that treating that as terrorism is a bad idea. Because they're going to get even angrier?
- 6y ago

RcouF1uZ4gsC 6y ago

I think even more than deplatforming ISIS was the physical defeat of ISIS in the real world. If ISIS was still having success like it had when it started with quickly overrunning Iraq and establishing a "Caliphate" all the deplatforming in the world would not have mattered all that much. In the same vein, with regard to the alt-right, the big event that happened was that Trump both lost the election and the attack on Capitol Hill was a spectacular failure. The Senate and House voted overwhelmingly to certify the election. Joe Biden is going to be the next President. I imagine that if Trump had won re-election, or that somehow Congress had managed to nullify Biden's electoral votes and send it to House delegations that made Trump the winner, all the deplatforming would be pointless. Deplatforming combined with demoralizing defeats is probably synergistic and effective.

neilsense 6y ago
No, haven't you heard, it was Twitter's deplatforming that defeated ISIS

cletus 6y ago

Just say no to these attempts to post long form content as a series of tweets. What an abysmal UX. This is unreadable. It’s a shame because given the cognitive dissonance of the most diehard Trump supporters (eg anything to do with QAnon) the parallels to ISIS aren’t out of place as you might think. And is I think we have reached the point off deplatformatizing this particular brand of extremism and conspiracy theories.

crowf 6y ago

Intuitively I always assumed that deplatforming works (and similarly that the Streisand effect doesn't actually work, it's just survivor bias). My issue is that I don't trust Mark Zuckerberg, Jack Dorsey and other SV CEOs to decide what should be deplatformed. We see a lot of media around why white people are racist, bad and immoral people. Why don't we see that much media around how the wealthy class are greedy, bad and immoral? My guess is because while BLM, antifa and the like are promoted by most of the major media channels, groups like occupy wall street are being quieted.

johnchristopher 6y ago
> We see a lot of media around why white people are racist, bad and immoral people. Why don't we see that much media around how the wealthy class are greedy, bad and immoral? Imgur is full of posts about that. edit: filter bubble ?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
emilsedgh 6y ago
We see a lot of media around why white people are racist, bad and immoral people. That seems horribly racist. I personally haven't seen such dumb arguments even on the internet. I've seen plenty of arguments about why "the system" is racist (or not) but that's not the same. Why don't we see that much media around how the wealthy class are greedy, bad and immoral? I don't think many people think that way to begin with. But there's plenty of class-based content on social networks. I cannot say I've ever seen them being deplatformed though.
- golergka 6y ago
  You're right that it is horribly racist, but could you have not seen it? In left-leaning, democrat-favouring american media (which is most of it), it's everywhere.
- edbob 6y ago
  > I personally haven't seen such dumb arguments even on the internet. A Critical Race Theory lecturer teaching that "All white people are racist" and "white people are born into not being human": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nupaP3IQwM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nupaP3IQwM Critical Race Theory is not just on the internet but receives government funding and is taught in schools. It's interesting that "white people are not human" doesn't seem to violate any content moderation policies, or perhaps it's merely selective enforcement. This makes it very hard to believe that censorship is anything other than a power grab for political purposes. We're closer than we've ever been to an ideal of racial equality. The last thing we need is a New Racism that glorifies racial hatred and segregation.

sleepysysadmin 6y ago

To be clear, ISIS deplatforming was ~6 years ago. This is in the context of ~200,000 republicans being banned from twitter. So placing context where due. This person is asserting republicans ~= ISIS. Though I do also realize Biden outright called Senator Cruz and some other senator Geobells. Senator cruz is a nazi propaganda minister. Which obviously makes Trump = Hitler.