4 ms·

Although this is a very fair question, I cannot help but notice that the first thing people associate with the word freedom today is with a negative angle. This

Although this is a very fair question, I cannot help but notice that the first thing people associate with the word freedom today is with a negative angle. This is really troubling me, as it used to be a more cherished value.

jstummbillig 6y ago
I think this maps reasonably well to a rise of both technological abuse and accountability when producing things for the internet now, compared to what it used to be.
- drukenemo 6y ago
  Who control the controllers?
  - KMag 6y ago
    One of these days, I'm going to actually sit down and read through Juvenal's Satires[0]. I've read Plato's Republic and Homer's Iliad and Odyssey, but not any of the Roman classics. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satires_(Juvenal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satires_(Juvenal)
    - oriettaxx 6y ago
      I would skip and opt for Stoics: "Don’t want the world to work like you want it to work. Love how it actually works and you will be happy."
      - justtopostthis3 6y ago
        Until you wake up one morning and realize that all the things you loved about how the world works have changed.
- KMag 6y ago
  Yes, particularly after observing how poorly society is adapting to pervasive social media. 3-4 years ago, I was nearly a free speech maximalist. I hope we figure out a way to properly educate middle school and high school students about cognitive biases, logical fallacies, statistical fallacies, and other tools needed to properly deal with social media. Right now, society is just adjusting very poorly to the advent of social media.
  - talhah 6y ago
    I wish more schools taught us the tools to deal with social media. At my school we're just given stale advice about cyberbullying and about posting things we'd regret. People don't even question the legitimacy of things often or think critically about it. It's as if their critical thinking is numbed. I don't know how else to put it, but it's rather interesting.
    - marvin 6y ago
      The Internet is like we've suddenly invented sugar, alcohol or firearms, without any of the societal tools to limit its damage. Laws, norms, defense forces, taboos. It's really something straight out of singularity-related philosophy. A technology with massive benefits and dangers that's rolled out worldwide in only a couple of decades. If you look at social media as a whole, let's say it was in effect a single decade. I'm sure we'll get a handle on social media eventually, with some damage along the way. But the underlying driver, fast technological change, won't disappear. This is not the last time we'll get into similar trouble.
marvin 6y ago
True, unlimited freedom in this sense inevitably means the ethically very worst use cases, because this is the limit of freedom in any society: Material that is illegal and will have the authorities use all reasonable efforts to stop its spread. Whether that's political discussion or CP depends on the society. If I had asked this question, it would be to gauge how far along the freedom spectrum this service has been designed to operate. There are distribution systems that are capable of even evading the most capable authorities, but their user experience is absolutely horrible. Any system like this will strike a balance, maybe also designing provisions for removing "material that is really bad". Either out of an ethical obligation, or in order to not risk being shut down wholesale. A system that was truly free and unlimited, would be the tool of an anarchist. Few people wish the implication of such a technology.
Closi 6y ago
I think it’s because people end up asking “what can I functionally do on this platform that I can’t functionally do on another platform”, and it’s easier to think of these ‘negative’ examples.

jstummbillig 6y ago

I think this maps reasonably well to a rise of both technological abuse and accountability when producing things for the internet now, compared to what it used to be.

drukenemo 6y ago
Who control the controllers?
- KMag 6y ago
  One of these days, I'm going to actually sit down and read through Juvenal's Satires[0]. I've read Plato's Republic and Homer's Iliad and Odyssey, but not any of the Roman classics. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satires_(Juvenal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satires_(Juvenal)
  - oriettaxx 6y ago
    I would skip and opt for Stoics: "Don’t want the world to work like you want it to work. Love how it actually works and you will be happy."
    - justtopostthis3 6y ago
      Until you wake up one morning and realize that all the things you loved about how the world works have changed.
KMag 6y ago
Yes, particularly after observing how poorly society is adapting to pervasive social media. 3-4 years ago, I was nearly a free speech maximalist. I hope we figure out a way to properly educate middle school and high school students about cognitive biases, logical fallacies, statistical fallacies, and other tools needed to properly deal with social media. Right now, society is just adjusting very poorly to the advent of social media.
- talhah 6y ago
  I wish more schools taught us the tools to deal with social media. At my school we're just given stale advice about cyberbullying and about posting things we'd regret. People don't even question the legitimacy of things often or think critically about it. It's as if their critical thinking is numbed. I don't know how else to put it, but it's rather interesting.
  - marvin 6y ago
    The Internet is like we've suddenly invented sugar, alcohol or firearms, without any of the societal tools to limit its damage. Laws, norms, defense forces, taboos. It's really something straight out of singularity-related philosophy. A technology with massive benefits and dangers that's rolled out worldwide in only a couple of decades. If you look at social media as a whole, let's say it was in effect a single decade. I'm sure we'll get a handle on social media eventually, with some damage along the way. But the underlying driver, fast technological change, won't disappear. This is not the last time we'll get into similar trouble.

marvin 6y ago

True, unlimited freedom in this sense inevitably means the ethically very worst use cases, because this is the limit of freedom in any society: Material that is illegal and will have the authorities use all reasonable efforts to stop its spread. Whether that's political discussion or CP depends on the society. If I had asked this question, it would be to gauge how far along the freedom spectrum this service has been designed to operate. There are distribution systems that are capable of even evading the most capable authorities, but their user experience is absolutely horrible. Any system like this will strike a balance, maybe also designing provisions for removing "material that is really bad". Either out of an ethical obligation, or in order to not risk being shut down wholesale. A system that was truly free and unlimited, would be the tool of an anarchist. Few people wish the implication of such a technology.

Closi 6y ago

I think it’s because people end up asking “what can I functionally do on this platform that I can’t functionally do on another platform”, and it’s easier to think of these ‘negative’ examples.