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I guess there is something unique to social media. If someone is using its own website + bbs (hosted on its own sever) to communicate those messages, I am not s

I guess there is something unique to social media. If someone is using its own website + bbs (hosted on its own sever) to communicate those messages, I am not sure what the tech companies can do. In theory, Apple + Google + Microsoft can ban the website at the OS level, so nobody can really access those messages. Technically, they can do this to Parler now.

Consultant32452 6y ago
ISPs and telecoms can ban you. Banks can ban you from having a bank account. Visa can ban you from transacting on their network. These things are already happening. You can build your own website, but you can't build your own internet. You can't build your own banking system.
- kristofferR 6y ago
  I disagree with your last paragraph. Crypto is basically it's own banking system and while you can't build your own internet you'll always be able to run your own (often encrypted) protocol on top of it (IPSF etc) the existing one. It's more about the web than the internet really. The web can be unfree quite easily. Unless we go full China and implement a Great Firewall other protocols can always exist on the net.
  - Consultant32452 6y ago
    Crypto exists only because the central banks allow them to.
    - kristofferR 6y ago
      I don't see how so. If people were banned from buying crypto by banks it would just instead go through middlemen.
  - pcr0 6y ago
    Crypto is its own banking system but going from fiat to crypto falls within the current banking system, unless you're willing to buy crypto with bundles of cash and risk getting mugged.
    - Acrobatic_Road 6y ago
      Not true. We can hijack the banking system using Bisq. https://bisq.network/ https://bisq.network/ Suppored payment methods: Advanced Cash AliPay Cash Deposit Chase QuickPay Face to face (in-person) Faster Payments HalCash Interac e-Transfer Japan Zengin Furikomi MoneyBeam (N26) MoneyGram National bank transfer Perfect Money Popmoney PromptPay Revolut SEPA SEPA Instant Swish Transfer with same bank Transfer with specific banks Uphold US Postal Money Order WeChat Pay Western Union Zelle And no, I don't think they asked permission. It's so funny. Whenever people say you can't do X with crypto, there is always something they don't know about that proves them wrong.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - pcr0 6y ago
        Thanks, I haven't heard of this.
    - joshstrange 6y ago
      > unless you're willing to buy crypto with bundles of cash and risk getting mugged I'm trying not to fall into a "Survivorship bias" here but I made 10s if not 100s of trades on LocalBitcoin years ago without issue. I wasn't meeting at people's houses or in some dark alley, I was in the Kroger (grocery store) parking lot or even inside Kroger or the Mall. I don't disagree with your point that fiat->crypto is not as easy as some people pretend it is but I just wanted to push back a little bit on the second part of your statement.
- bazooka_penguin 6y ago
  They could build those things if they built their own society, which is what I fear the right will try to do one way or another. And I think our options are to split the country and manifest the divide early or wait for some sort of civil conflict.
  - AnHonestComment 6y ago
    Genuine question: You say you fear they’ll do so, but if they’re being forced out of society — what choice do they have but to build their own?
    - btmorex 6y ago
      What they need to do is accept that Donald Trump lossed, shut the fuck up, and get in line. They're currently advocating for a revolution (civil war really). And if you're like: but were they really? Look at content on Parler, the answer is yes they were. You can't expect any sort of appeasement when you're calling for violence.
      - AnHonestComment 6y ago
        You’re telling a group of people who lost their livelihoods and who watched their cities smolder for six months as far left militias committed crime after crime to “sit down and shut up”. Has that strategy ever worked, in history? Calling it an “insurrection” that a single demonstration at the capitol happened after six months of weekly to daily gang activity from far left militias promoted by politicians is just gaslighting. The pearl clutching about “appeasement” when Kamala Harris advocated for rioting and multiple prominent Democrats created bail funds supporting far left violence is laughable. The reason the DC event happened was because you already tried a media blackout of their concerns and telling them to shut up. They forcibly told you “no”. Now what?
    - bazooka_penguin 6y ago
      The problem isn't that they have to build their own, to me it's clear they want to. The problem is that they feel they're being shut down or invaded or whatever, when they attempt to build their own services and communities. Their responses has been to double down and create even broader spaces going from small groups to alternative social media, and I think, eventually an alternate society and political system. At that point the legitimacy of the US government will be challenged, and that's already beginning to happen, and we may have a civil conflict. They've been creating smaller more exclusive communities for years. They have their own youtube news and fan/media channels, they have their own internet personalities and figureheads even among the mainstream (like dr disrespect, who seemed to be popular with right-leaning gamers I know), they tend to congregate in various indie games (especially war and FPS games), they have their own forums and online spaces (e.g. private discords; thedonald reddit clone, alternate subreddits; parler; 4chan, which is older than any of this but decidedly more right wing nowadays than I remember 10 years ago), and so forth. The problem is that they feel these spaces and communities are under attack. Parler, while I don't disagree with the right of FAANG companies to decouple from parler, is just the latest space that's "under attack". This isn't unique to Parler, I've seen the right complain about this in gaming, movies and comics (like Star Wars), tabletop games, etc. for years and I know people who were otherwise apolitical but shifted to the right because they felt their hobbies and fanbases were being (unfairly) criticized and changed by outsiders specifically from the left-wing who don't appreciate the original characteristics. And I even agree to some degree that it's hard to have your own space without being attacked. For example, recently I am somewhat aware that Hololive idols, basically asian/japanese game and lifestyle streamers using 3D avatars, have been under (what I think is) undue scrutiny from some feminists for being sexist, pandering to pedophiles, and fueling misogyny. I've seen similar attacks on anime and on some games. Personally I think there's more of a racial element, given western phobia towards asians, in a lot of these attacks and criticisms because extra criticism seem to be targeted at japanese or asian media, but in any case, people on the right think it's mostly political and the political divide has not only worsened it's caused people to take sides and move from a localized feuds (fighting over media like anime and Star Wars) to a broader battle (politics, values, belief systems). And as far as I've observed, this tracks with their attempts and successes at creating increasingly broader alternative platforms. From having their own spaces within larger communities to creating alternative platforms, like parler, or hijacking sites like 4chan, and actually making them viable, unlike earlier attempts (like voat). As of January 6 I think we've come to the point where enough people have aligned politically on the right that they're going to want their own real world society, and not just an online one. Shutting down parler is just going to accelerate the sentiment imo, because as far as I've seen people kind of quantize their world views when (they believe) they're under attack, and group up. They don't become more understanding and broader minded, they become more tribal. So if the right wants their own society just let them have it before internet fights become real ones. Personally I think it's still a small amount of people, my experiences are just anecdotal based on what I've seen in communities I was part of and people I know, but I think the sentiment is growing rapidly and trying to shut things down isn't working, at best it's a roadblock that pushes problems down the road, at worst it makes people go underground and become more competent at hiding in plain sight. edit: My fear in particular is that they'll resort to wide scale political, maybe racial, violence. Not that they want right-wing spaces. I'm asian, a lot of us already kind of self-segregate and I don't see any issue with it to be frank. I know integration is important in the US but I don't see a problem with people wanting their own safe space where they're left alone, although it's sad it's come to the point where people attack the capitol.
- paganel 6y ago
  Correct, Shopify has already banned a couple of Trump-related shops and I can see Visa and MasterCard going one step further and not accepting the transactions coming from Trump-related businesses at all.
  - collyw 6y ago
    This is terrifying. You aren't actually killing your political opponents but just cutting them off from being able to do anything in the modern world.
- iamacyborg 6y ago
  >ISPs and telecoms can ban you. Banks can ban you from having a bank account. Visa can ban you from transacting on their network. These things are already happening. It’s important to look at the context around those bans. The most recent ban from the companies you’ve listed was Visa banning PornHub. They did so because of the amount of underage and non-consentual content on the website. Yes, companies can ban you in theory, but everything indicates that they do so only in extreme circumstances, like hosting child porn or terrorist content (which is essentially what Parler is being banned for).
  - concordDance 6y ago
    > Yes, companies can ban you in theory, but everything indicates that they do so only in extreme circumstances, like hosting child porn or terrorist content This is very much untrue. Most of the conservatives (including the non-conservative called Donald Trump) banned from the main platforms are further from terrorist content than AOC is.
    - iamacyborg 6y ago
      Come on bud, you can do better than that.
      - concordDance 6y ago
        Not without a lot of effort. Having to go hunt down lists of conservatives and the exact things they got removed for is hours of work. Then it's another hour looking through AOC tweets. Then there's the write-up at the end.

Consultant32452 6y ago

ISPs and telecoms can ban you. Banks can ban you from having a bank account. Visa can ban you from transacting on their network. These things are already happening. You can build your own website, but you can't build your own internet. You can't build your own banking system.

kristofferR 6y ago
I disagree with your last paragraph. Crypto is basically it's own banking system and while you can't build your own internet you'll always be able to run your own (often encrypted) protocol on top of it (IPSF etc) the existing one. It's more about the web than the internet really. The web can be unfree quite easily. Unless we go full China and implement a Great Firewall other protocols can always exist on the net.
- Consultant32452 6y ago
  Crypto exists only because the central banks allow them to.
  - kristofferR 6y ago
    I don't see how so. If people were banned from buying crypto by banks it would just instead go through middlemen.
- pcr0 6y ago
  Crypto is its own banking system but going from fiat to crypto falls within the current banking system, unless you're willing to buy crypto with bundles of cash and risk getting mugged.
  - Acrobatic_Road 6y ago
    Not true. We can hijack the banking system using Bisq. https://bisq.network/ https://bisq.network/ Suppored payment methods: Advanced Cash AliPay Cash Deposit Chase QuickPay Face to face (in-person) Faster Payments HalCash Interac e-Transfer Japan Zengin Furikomi MoneyBeam (N26) MoneyGram National bank transfer Perfect Money Popmoney PromptPay Revolut SEPA SEPA Instant Swish Transfer with same bank Transfer with specific banks Uphold US Postal Money Order WeChat Pay Western Union Zelle And no, I don't think they asked permission. It's so funny. Whenever people say you can't do X with crypto, there is always something they don't know about that proves them wrong.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - pcr0 6y ago
      Thanks, I haven't heard of this.
  - joshstrange 6y ago
    > unless you're willing to buy crypto with bundles of cash and risk getting mugged I'm trying not to fall into a "Survivorship bias" here but I made 10s if not 100s of trades on LocalBitcoin years ago without issue. I wasn't meeting at people's houses or in some dark alley, I was in the Kroger (grocery store) parking lot or even inside Kroger or the Mall. I don't disagree with your point that fiat->crypto is not as easy as some people pretend it is but I just wanted to push back a little bit on the second part of your statement.
bazooka_penguin 6y ago
They could build those things if they built their own society, which is what I fear the right will try to do one way or another. And I think our options are to split the country and manifest the divide early or wait for some sort of civil conflict.
- AnHonestComment 6y ago
  Genuine question: You say you fear they’ll do so, but if they’re being forced out of society — what choice do they have but to build their own?
  - btmorex 6y ago
    What they need to do is accept that Donald Trump lossed, shut the fuck up, and get in line. They're currently advocating for a revolution (civil war really). And if you're like: but were they really? Look at content on Parler, the answer is yes they were. You can't expect any sort of appeasement when you're calling for violence.
    - AnHonestComment 6y ago
      You’re telling a group of people who lost their livelihoods and who watched their cities smolder for six months as far left militias committed crime after crime to “sit down and shut up”. Has that strategy ever worked, in history? Calling it an “insurrection” that a single demonstration at the capitol happened after six months of weekly to daily gang activity from far left militias promoted by politicians is just gaslighting. The pearl clutching about “appeasement” when Kamala Harris advocated for rioting and multiple prominent Democrats created bail funds supporting far left violence is laughable. The reason the DC event happened was because you already tried a media blackout of their concerns and telling them to shut up. They forcibly told you “no”. Now what?
  - bazooka_penguin 6y ago
    The problem isn't that they have to build their own, to me it's clear they want to. The problem is that they feel they're being shut down or invaded or whatever, when they attempt to build their own services and communities. Their responses has been to double down and create even broader spaces going from small groups to alternative social media, and I think, eventually an alternate society and political system. At that point the legitimacy of the US government will be challenged, and that's already beginning to happen, and we may have a civil conflict. They've been creating smaller more exclusive communities for years. They have their own youtube news and fan/media channels, they have their own internet personalities and figureheads even among the mainstream (like dr disrespect, who seemed to be popular with right-leaning gamers I know), they tend to congregate in various indie games (especially war and FPS games), they have their own forums and online spaces (e.g. private discords; thedonald reddit clone, alternate subreddits; parler; 4chan, which is older than any of this but decidedly more right wing nowadays than I remember 10 years ago), and so forth. The problem is that they feel these spaces and communities are under attack. Parler, while I don't disagree with the right of FAANG companies to decouple from parler, is just the latest space that's "under attack". This isn't unique to Parler, I've seen the right complain about this in gaming, movies and comics (like Star Wars), tabletop games, etc. for years and I know people who were otherwise apolitical but shifted to the right because they felt their hobbies and fanbases were being (unfairly) criticized and changed by outsiders specifically from the left-wing who don't appreciate the original characteristics. And I even agree to some degree that it's hard to have your own space without being attacked. For example, recently I am somewhat aware that Hololive idols, basically asian/japanese game and lifestyle streamers using 3D avatars, have been under (what I think is) undue scrutiny from some feminists for being sexist, pandering to pedophiles, and fueling misogyny. I've seen similar attacks on anime and on some games. Personally I think there's more of a racial element, given western phobia towards asians, in a lot of these attacks and criticisms because extra criticism seem to be targeted at japanese or asian media, but in any case, people on the right think it's mostly political and the political divide has not only worsened it's caused people to take sides and move from a localized feuds (fighting over media like anime and Star Wars) to a broader battle (politics, values, belief systems). And as far as I've observed, this tracks with their attempts and successes at creating increasingly broader alternative platforms. From having their own spaces within larger communities to creating alternative platforms, like parler, or hijacking sites like 4chan, and actually making them viable, unlike earlier attempts (like voat). As of January 6 I think we've come to the point where enough people have aligned politically on the right that they're going to want their own real world society, and not just an online one. Shutting down parler is just going to accelerate the sentiment imo, because as far as I've seen people kind of quantize their world views when (they believe) they're under attack, and group up. They don't become more understanding and broader minded, they become more tribal. So if the right wants their own society just let them have it before internet fights become real ones. Personally I think it's still a small amount of people, my experiences are just anecdotal based on what I've seen in communities I was part of and people I know, but I think the sentiment is growing rapidly and trying to shut things down isn't working, at best it's a roadblock that pushes problems down the road, at worst it makes people go underground and become more competent at hiding in plain sight. edit: My fear in particular is that they'll resort to wide scale political, maybe racial, violence. Not that they want right-wing spaces. I'm asian, a lot of us already kind of self-segregate and I don't see any issue with it to be frank. I know integration is important in the US but I don't see a problem with people wanting their own safe space where they're left alone, although it's sad it's come to the point where people attack the capitol.
paganel 6y ago
Correct, Shopify has already banned a couple of Trump-related shops and I can see Visa and MasterCard going one step further and not accepting the transactions coming from Trump-related businesses at all.
- collyw 6y ago
  This is terrifying. You aren't actually killing your political opponents but just cutting them off from being able to do anything in the modern world.
iamacyborg 6y ago
>ISPs and telecoms can ban you. Banks can ban you from having a bank account. Visa can ban you from transacting on their network. These things are already happening. It’s important to look at the context around those bans. The most recent ban from the companies you’ve listed was Visa banning PornHub. They did so because of the amount of underage and non-consentual content on the website. Yes, companies can ban you in theory, but everything indicates that they do so only in extreme circumstances, like hosting child porn or terrorist content (which is essentially what Parler is being banned for).
- concordDance 6y ago
  > Yes, companies can ban you in theory, but everything indicates that they do so only in extreme circumstances, like hosting child porn or terrorist content This is very much untrue. Most of the conservatives (including the non-conservative called Donald Trump) banned from the main platforms are further from terrorist content than AOC is.
  - iamacyborg 6y ago
    Come on bud, you can do better than that.
    - concordDance 6y ago
      Not without a lot of effort. Having to go hunt down lists of conservatives and the exact things they got removed for is hours of work. Then it's another hour looking through AOC tweets. Then there's the write-up at the end.