8 ms·

Because if there was one thing it wasn't, it wasn't an "existential threat to the republic." Hyperbole like this make it hard to talk about the rest of it reaso

by throwaway201103 6y ago

Because if there was one thing it wasn't, it wasn't an "existential threat to the republic." Hyperbole like this make it hard to talk about the rest of it reasonably. It was a protest gone off the rails, with a few bad actors, and an embarrasing lack of preparedness by the Capitol Police on that day of all days, given what has been going on all year.

na85 6y ago
>It was a protest gone off the rails, with a few bad actors, and an embarrasing lack of preparedness by the Capitol Police on that day of all days, given what has been going on all year. Those "few bad actors" had weapons and tried to interrupt the certification of the new president. They may be idiots because of their poor planning but their intent was obvious to anyone who hasn't drank the kool-aid.
- WindyLakeReturn 6y ago
  And previously a few bad actors attempted to assassinate a number of GOP representatives, yet we didn't see a comparable reaction. I also seem to recall there were people staging faked but realistic looking beheadings of Trump which was celebrated as free speech.
  - na85 6y ago
    Ah yes, whataboutism, HN's favourite refuge when confronted with unassailable arguments.
- throwaway201103 6y ago
  I don't think anyone (certainly not me) is denying some intent of at least a core of instigators to create a disruption, at minimum. They should be identified, charged with their crimes, and stand trial.
tenpies 6y ago
I really find it fascinating how the US media finds the exception and pretends it's the norm. It's something out of psy-ops. ONE demonstrator had zip ties, therefore "they had zip ties". Sure, many were armed and who fired the sole single lethal shot that day? Law enforcement. How is that for peaceful? The "four people died" narrative is also very telling. One demonstrator was shot by police. One law enforcement officer died of injuries - although details have been very vague. The other two deaths? One heart attack and one unrelated condition. At this point I expect the US media to attribute every single death in DC on that day to these demonstrations just so they can pretend it was an extremely lethal event. The people "stormed the Capitol" and what did they do once they had it? They took selfies and then left peacefully. That's not a coup or an insurrection, that's a disorganized demonstration that went too far because Capitol police could apparently not keep doors closed. But I understand. The US media has been priming people for 5 years for this. They've been running influence campaigns and promoting violence the minute Trump won. They spent 3 years talking about Russian collusion and then didn't say a thing when it was proven false. Could you imagine if the Russian collusion narrative had been treated the same way the electoral fraud narrative has been treated?
- astrange 6y ago
  The guy who had a heart attack died because the weapon he was carrying intending to use against a congressman went off and killed himself instead.
  - YarickR2 6y ago
    Intending to use against a congressman ? Did he tell that much to you ?
    - astrange 6y ago
      I also love making threats on social media then flying across the country and taking weapons into buildings where they’re not allowed so I can definitely not use them for anything.
Trasmatta 6y ago
That "protest gone off the rails, with a few bad actors" would have absolutely executed a member of Congress or the Vice President if given the chance. And they got unbelievably close to being able to do that. They had weapons, armor, bloodlust, restraints, and smaller organized extremist groups. How can you not see that as an "existential threat to the republic"?
- diryawish 6y ago
  What was your opinion on the BLM protests outside of the White House ?
  - Trasmatta 6y ago
    I'm not sure why you ask, but this seems like a potential bad faith attempt at whataboutism. I don't support any form of rioting. I also don't think what happened outside of the White House was in any way a riot. Certainly not in any way comparable to what happened this week at the Capitol.
    - diryawish 6y ago
      I ask because it makes you think and hopefully prevent overreaction. Banning apps because of extremists and poor police presence is stupid. I think these people should have been treated the same as the second day of protest where Capitol police were stationed outside after the church was set on fire. There was a lot more time to plan for these event as it was less spontaneous and had many hundreds of thousands planning attendance. I think not having a bigger police presence was pathetic and it was likely political.
  - Qub3d 6y ago
    Okay, putting the ideals of the two events aside, the fact is the police (and national guard) presence was great enough during the BLM protest to make breaching the perimeter essentially impossible, as opposed to the much lighter presence on the 6th.
    - 6y ago
bigtiger 6y ago
I sincerely hope you are correct, but it's difficult to know the following: 1. just how many citizens were sympathetic to the rioters as they saw those events on unfolding on their screens 2. how their collective behavior will change as a result I wouldn't say that "existential threat" is hyperbole, I'd say that its accuracy depends on the answer to the above questions. I wasn't worried about the immediate collapse of the America at the hands of the Capitol mob.
- mostlove 6y ago
  Not an answer to your question, but a few interesting data points nonetheless: "From @YouGov poll: among Republican voters, 45% approve of the storming of Capitol, 30% think the perpetrators are 'patriots', 52% think Biden is at least partly to blame for it, and 85% think it would be inappropriate to remove Trump from office after this. This is not a fringe." https://twitter.com/SMerler/status/1347089854958596098?s=20 https://twitter.com/SMerler/status/1347089854958596098?s=20
  - wutbrodo 6y ago
    Fwiw, a more recent PBS/Marist poll puts Republican support for the attack at 18%. https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/news/533452-poll-18-percent-of-republicans-support-capitol-riots%3famp https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/news/53345... Full poll (pdf): http://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/PBS-NewsHour_Marist-Poll_USA-NOS-and-Tables_202101081001.pdf#page=3 http://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/PBS-...
  - mckirk 6y ago
    Damn, those are depressing numbers...

na85 6y ago

>It was a protest gone off the rails, with a few bad actors, and an embarrasing lack of preparedness by the Capitol Police on that day of all days, given what has been going on all year. Those "few bad actors" had weapons and tried to interrupt the certification of the new president. They may be idiots because of their poor planning but their intent was obvious to anyone who hasn't drank the kool-aid.

WindyLakeReturn 6y ago
And previously a few bad actors attempted to assassinate a number of GOP representatives, yet we didn't see a comparable reaction. I also seem to recall there were people staging faked but realistic looking beheadings of Trump which was celebrated as free speech.
- na85 6y ago
  Ah yes, whataboutism, HN's favourite refuge when confronted with unassailable arguments.
throwaway201103 6y ago
I don't think anyone (certainly not me) is denying some intent of at least a core of instigators to create a disruption, at minimum. They should be identified, charged with their crimes, and stand trial.

tenpies 6y ago

I really find it fascinating how the US media finds the exception and pretends it's the norm. It's something out of psy-ops. ONE demonstrator had zip ties, therefore "they had zip ties". Sure, many were armed and who fired the sole single lethal shot that day? Law enforcement. How is that for peaceful? The "four people died" narrative is also very telling. One demonstrator was shot by police. One law enforcement officer died of injuries - although details have been very vague. The other two deaths? One heart attack and one unrelated condition. At this point I expect the US media to attribute every single death in DC on that day to these demonstrations just so they can pretend it was an extremely lethal event. The people "stormed the Capitol" and what did they do once they had it? They took selfies and then left peacefully. That's not a coup or an insurrection, that's a disorganized demonstration that went too far because Capitol police could apparently not keep doors closed. But I understand. The US media has been priming people for 5 years for this. They've been running influence campaigns and promoting violence the minute Trump won. They spent 3 years talking about Russian collusion and then didn't say a thing when it was proven false. Could you imagine if the Russian collusion narrative had been treated the same way the electoral fraud narrative has been treated?

astrange 6y ago
The guy who had a heart attack died because the weapon he was carrying intending to use against a congressman went off and killed himself instead.
- YarickR2 6y ago
  Intending to use against a congressman ? Did he tell that much to you ?
  - astrange 6y ago
    I also love making threats on social media then flying across the country and taking weapons into buildings where they’re not allowed so I can definitely not use them for anything.

Trasmatta 6y ago

That "protest gone off the rails, with a few bad actors" would have absolutely executed a member of Congress or the Vice President if given the chance. And they got unbelievably close to being able to do that. They had weapons, armor, bloodlust, restraints, and smaller organized extremist groups. How can you not see that as an "existential threat to the republic"?

diryawish 6y ago
What was your opinion on the BLM protests outside of the White House ?
- Trasmatta 6y ago
  I'm not sure why you ask, but this seems like a potential bad faith attempt at whataboutism. I don't support any form of rioting. I also don't think what happened outside of the White House was in any way a riot. Certainly not in any way comparable to what happened this week at the Capitol.
  - diryawish 6y ago
    I ask because it makes you think and hopefully prevent overreaction. Banning apps because of extremists and poor police presence is stupid. I think these people should have been treated the same as the second day of protest where Capitol police were stationed outside after the church was set on fire. There was a lot more time to plan for these event as it was less spontaneous and had many hundreds of thousands planning attendance. I think not having a bigger police presence was pathetic and it was likely political.
- Qub3d 6y ago
  Okay, putting the ideals of the two events aside, the fact is the police (and national guard) presence was great enough during the BLM protest to make breaching the perimeter essentially impossible, as opposed to the much lighter presence on the 6th.
  - 6y ago

bigtiger 6y ago

I sincerely hope you are correct, but it's difficult to know the following: 1. just how many citizens were sympathetic to the rioters as they saw those events on unfolding on their screens 2. how their collective behavior will change as a result I wouldn't say that "existential threat" is hyperbole, I'd say that its accuracy depends on the answer to the above questions. I wasn't worried about the immediate collapse of the America at the hands of the Capitol mob.

mostlove 6y ago
Not an answer to your question, but a few interesting data points nonetheless: "From @YouGov poll: among Republican voters, 45% approve of the storming of Capitol, 30% think the perpetrators are 'patriots', 52% think Biden is at least partly to blame for it, and 85% think it would be inappropriate to remove Trump from office after this. This is not a fringe." https://twitter.com/SMerler/status/1347089854958596098?s=20 https://twitter.com/SMerler/status/1347089854958596098?s=20
- wutbrodo 6y ago
  Fwiw, a more recent PBS/Marist poll puts Republican support for the attack at 18%. https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/news/533452-poll-18-percent-of-republicans-support-capitol-riots%3famp https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/news/53345... Full poll (pdf): http://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/PBS-NewsHour_Marist-Poll_USA-NOS-and-Tables_202101081001.pdf#page=3 http://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/PBS-...
- mckirk 6y ago
  Damn, those are depressing numbers...