Yeah, I'm just using Java as an example because there's a clear goal (almost every 11 year old plays Minecraft, if they can program plugins for it, they will be

Yeah, I'm just using Java as an example because there's a clear goal (almost every 11 year old plays Minecraft, if they can program plugins for it, they will be the most popular kid in class), and because its hard enough so that they're forced to learn good practices.