3 ms·

Given the original (lossless AVIF) and AVIF tabs match up and the others differ, I wonder if things went wrong with converting to the other formats? I don't hav

Given the original (lossless AVIF) and AVIF tabs match up and the others differ, I wonder if things went wrong with converting to the other formats? I don't have the time to look into the detail here right now, but it could simply be a case of the conversion between the formats losing the the colour space data from the image? The one group highly unlikely to blame here is web standards bodies, who don't have anything to do with how image formats are rendered (it gets as far as defining the default colour space when none is provided, but that's it). But I'd guess it's likely an image file problem rather than a display problem.

jiggawatts 6y ago
> The one group highly unlikely to blame here is web standards bodies I'm pretty sure I can blame a web standards body for not standardising colour management for the web! The colour space of embedded images is no longer the only concern, and is not separate from the colours as defined in CSS, SVG, and Canvas to name a few. Not to mention that even greyscale images need colour management because Macs, PCs, and Televisions all use different gamma curves. W3C's efforts have been so underwhelming that Apple, the "bastion" of web standards support has been forced to come up with a non-standard extension: https://webkit.org/blog/10042/wide-gamut-color-in-css-with-display-p3/ https://webkit.org/blog/10042/wide-gamut-color-in-css-with-d... Of course, their extension supports exactly two colour spaces: sRGB and Display P3, because fuck everyone else who isn't using an iDevice or a Mac, am I right? If I sound salty, it's because I'm a photographer, and as such it grinds my gears that it is literally impossible to use wide-gamut images on the web for any purpose without degrading quality for a substantial fraction of the viewers. I fully expect this to be resolved satisfactorily some time in the 2030s, perhaps the 2040s. Any decade now...
- whereistimbo 6y ago
  W3C? Isn't WHATWG the standard that everybody follows?
  - epse 6y ago
    Yes but also sort of no? It's a whole can of worms, which Web standard is done by who
    - arp242 6y ago
      I think we need a standard to specify which standards organisation to use.
      - psee 6y ago
        Let's start with a working group
- pbowyer 6y ago
  As a former photographer, I agree. I found this article on fidelity vs appeal handy, especially to illuminate the problems with AVIF's algorithm when you are showing off photos. https://cloudinary.com/blog/what_to_focus_on_in_image_compression_fidelity_or_appeal https://cloudinary.com/blog/what_to_focus_on_in_image_compre... I'm waiting for JPEG-XL. And then color management after that.

jiggawatts 6y ago

> The one group highly unlikely to blame here is web standards bodies I'm pretty sure I can blame a web standards body for not standardising colour management for the web! The colour space of embedded images is no longer the only concern, and is not separate from the colours as defined in CSS, SVG, and Canvas to name a few. Not to mention that even greyscale images need colour management because Macs, PCs, and Televisions all use different gamma curves. W3C's efforts have been so underwhelming that Apple, the "bastion" of web standards support has been forced to come up with a non-standard extension: https://webkit.org/blog/10042/wide-gamut-color-in-css-with-display-p3/ https://webkit.org/blog/10042/wide-gamut-color-in-css-with-d... Of course, their extension supports exactly two colour spaces: sRGB and Display P3, because fuck everyone else who isn't using an iDevice or a Mac, am I right? If I sound salty, it's because I'm a photographer, and as such it grinds my gears that it is literally impossible to use wide-gamut images on the web for any purpose without degrading quality for a substantial fraction of the viewers. I fully expect this to be resolved satisfactorily some time in the 2030s, perhaps the 2040s. Any decade now...

whereistimbo 6y ago
W3C? Isn't WHATWG the standard that everybody follows?
- epse 6y ago
  Yes but also sort of no? It's a whole can of worms, which Web standard is done by who
  - arp242 6y ago
    I think we need a standard to specify which standards organisation to use.
    - psee 6y ago
      Let's start with a working group
pbowyer 6y ago
As a former photographer, I agree. I found this article on fidelity vs appeal handy, especially to illuminate the problems with AVIF's algorithm when you are showing off photos. https://cloudinary.com/blog/what_to_focus_on_in_image_compression_fidelity_or_appeal https://cloudinary.com/blog/what_to_focus_on_in_image_compre... I'm waiting for JPEG-XL. And then color management after that.