6 ms·

Nevermind the ziptie handcuffs and tasers

beerandt 6y ago
Defensive tools for law abiding citizens unable to carry in a "gun-free" zone. It only show any sort of offensive ill intent to people who want it to show ill intent. Think it through logically: It proves adherence to the law, not intent to break it. Neither zipties or tasers are illegal, but in DC, concealed carry, or even having any personal gun is. If the intent was to forcibly take over the capital, or some sort of insurrection, it seems silly to worry about concealed carry laws while carrying out an open "rebellion". But even so, let's say you don't want to risk killing anyone with a gun. You still have a problem, because neither tasers nor zipties are an effective tool if you're going up against an armed federal police force and possibly hundreds of politicians and staffers. Tazers have maybe a few discharges without needing to be recharged. That's not gonna deter multiple people, let alone a crowd. Not even an individual for more than a few moments. Definitely not capital police officers with guns, who are trained to avoid and overcome being tazed, by actually being tazed. However, if you're a law abiding citizen protesting in DC, and you want to defend yourself against a potential attacker, a tazer is basically the only option you have. With the mayor's restrictions placed on the National Guard and police officers, it seems especially reasonable, given all the violence of the past year that police and politicians have failed to prevent, sometimes willingly. Since tazers only disable attackers temporarily, zipties make sense as a defensive tool, if you need to disable an attacker looking enough to get away, or between the time the tazer wears off and when the police arrive. Especially if you wind up in a situation where you are somehow confined in some space, trapped with your attacker. If people would at least try to perceive Wednesday with an open mind, it's easy to explain 99.9% as well intentioned citizens, peacefully marching. Even with the confrontations, it's easy to see how people could have unintentionally gotten caught up in an escalated situation. I get that not everyone was an innocent bystander. But, again, these people deserve the same benefit of the doubt that the left got when taking over the Senate building while admittedly trying to intimidate senators into changing their votes. Yet they were kneeled to in deference by the FBI, before being given unfettered access.
- mcv 6y ago
  What the hell is defensive about zipties? That they wanted to bring weapons into the Capitol at all is damning enough. It's a place for debate, not violence.
  - beerandt 6y ago
    If you can't possess a defensive weapon capable of deterring/ detaining an attacker, if needed, for an extended period of time, until you are either able to escape, or until the police arrive... then zipties become a useful compliment to a taser (which is only able to disable an attacker temporarily).
    - mcv 6y ago
      If you are in a position to tie someone up, you're in a position to escape. There's no way it's a self-defense weapon. But even if it was, why would you need it in the Capitol? Sorry, but everything points to them planning to abduct the politicians they were searching for.
      - koheripbal 6y ago
        I suppose you could make the argument that they could detain someone who's violent for the benefit of others in the crowd, but I agree that the implied intent of storming a building with politicians lends evidence to theory that they had the intention of taking hostages.

Defensive tools for law abiding citizens unable to carry in a "gun-free" zone. It only show any sort of offensive ill intent to people who want it to show ill intent. Think it through logically: It proves adherence to the law, not intent to break it. Neither zipties or tasers are illegal, but in DC, concealed carry, or even having any personal gun is. If the intent was to forcibly take over the capital, or some sort of insurrection, it seems silly to worry about concealed carry laws while carrying out an open "rebellion". But even so, let's say you don't want to risk killing anyone with a gun. You still have a problem, because neither tasers nor zipties are an effective tool if you're going up against an armed federal police force and possibly hundreds of politicians and staffers. Tazers have maybe a few discharges without needing to be recharged. That's not gonna deter multiple people, let alone a crowd. Not even an individual for more than a few moments. Definitely not capital police officers with guns, who are trained to avoid and overcome being tazed, by actually being tazed. However, if you're a law abiding citizen protesting in DC, and you want to defend yourself against a potential attacker, a tazer is basically the only option you have. With the mayor's restrictions placed on the National Guard and police officers, it seems especially reasonable, given all the violence of the past year that police and politicians have failed to prevent, sometimes willingly. Since tazers only disable attackers temporarily, zipties make sense as a defensive tool, if you need to disable an attacker looking enough to get away, or between the time the tazer wears off and when the police arrive. Especially if you wind up in a situation where you are somehow confined in some space, trapped with your attacker. If people would at least try to perceive Wednesday with an open mind, it's easy to explain 99.9% as well intentioned citizens, peacefully marching. Even with the confrontations, it's easy to see how people could have unintentionally gotten caught up in an escalated situation. I get that not everyone was an innocent bystander. But, again, these people deserve the same benefit of the doubt that the left got when taking over the Senate building while admittedly trying to intimidate senators into changing their votes. Yet they were kneeled to in deference by the FBI, before being given unfettered access.

mcv 6y ago
What the hell is defensive about zipties? That they wanted to bring weapons into the Capitol at all is damning enough. It's a place for debate, not violence.
- beerandt 6y ago
  If you can't possess a defensive weapon capable of deterring/ detaining an attacker, if needed, for an extended period of time, until you are either able to escape, or until the police arrive... then zipties become a useful compliment to a taser (which is only able to disable an attacker temporarily).
  - mcv 6y ago
    If you are in a position to tie someone up, you're in a position to escape. There's no way it's a self-defense weapon. But even if it was, why would you need it in the Capitol? Sorry, but everything points to them planning to abduct the politicians they were searching for.
    - koheripbal 6y ago
      I suppose you could make the argument that they could detain someone who's violent for the benefit of others in the crowd, but I agree that the implied intent of storming a building with politicians lends evidence to theory that they had the intention of taking hostages.