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Hypothetically, how would you go about staying online completely independently? Let's say you build your own data center, buy the real estate (because a landlo

by zelly 6y ago

Hypothetically, how would you go about staying online completely independently? Let's say you build your own data center, buy the real estate (because a landlord could be pressured to cancel your lease), purchase all the network equipment, and hire your own full-time employees. You still need to lease an IP block and a fiber connection from a carrier (like AT&T, Century Link, etc.). Couldn't they deplatform you too? Is there any law that says AT&T etc. cannot refuse service? Otherwise, is there any way to get an indie data center on the internet without going through any other company? Every other utility seems to be regulated. For example even if you have a Confederate flag or a picture of Stalin outside your house, the local electric and water companies are not allowed to turn off your service as long as you are paying the bill.

whycombagator 6y ago
> Hypothetically, how would you go about staying online completely independently? Off the top of my head, things like IPFS (InterPlanetary File System) or the blockchain
- brianush1 6y ago
  You can't use IPFS or the blockchain without having a connection to the internet in the first place. If all the ISPs decided to refuse you service, there'd be no way to stay connected to the internet.
j2kun 6y ago
> Is there any law that says AT&T etc. cannot refuse service? Literally Trump's appointee for the FCC removed that regulation (it was called net neutrality).
whoisjohnkid 6y ago
Build app on some sort of decentralized blockchain ... though it might be a hurdle to get the average person to use it
tomjakubowski 6y ago
> the local electric and water companies are not allowed to turn off your service as long as you are paying the bill. Public utilities are required to guarantee service as a condition of the monopoly granted them by the state. The server hosting market isn't a monopoly at all, let alone one mandated by the state. Maybe your point does stand at the ISP level. It probably should since in most places there are just a couple of them, and Internet access is close enough to essential today. https://www.nclc.org/images/pdf/older_consumers/consumer_facts/cf_dealing_with_utility_companies.pdf https://www.nclc.org/images/pdf/older_consumers/consumer_fac...
- zelly 6y ago
  Tier 1 and 2 is as much of a monopoly as public utilities. If they all deny me service, it would be as hard to get connected as it would be to build my own water pipeline.
ultimoo 6y ago
Thanks for posting this, I was pondering along the same lines! > Every other utility seems to be regulated. For example even if you have a Confederate flag or a picture of Stalin outside your house, the local electric and water companies are not allowed to turn off your service as long as you are paying the bill. TIL that this is due to the implied monopoly. I think the difference is that electricity and water are required for survival but internet isn't so it isn't regulated as such. This can also be extended to the difference in buying milk (walk in and pay cash) vs. buying alcohol (need a current govt issued ID).
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
Triv888 6y ago
Host it in a different country... But it could of course still get blocked by the US government.
- zelly 6y ago
  The interesting thing about Parler is that the US government and its laws are neutral to it, but no US corporations wish to carry the liability of serving them--regardless of the money they offer. Legally, Parler could operate but no laws exist to guarantee it can. If this scenario played out in another business, like a restaurant, then nobody could really stop them from operating. Even if the food supply companies stopped delivering, there is a decentralized network of small farmers and transportation companies that could pick up the slack. No such counterpart exists with internet companies. You're either part of the grid or you're out. Come to think of it, that could explain a lot.
  - Triv888 6y ago
    > [...] but no US corporations wish to carry the liability of serving them [...] are there even any liabilities? I think that they are only trying to block communications (which probably won't work in the end)

by zelly 6y ago

whycombagator 6y ago

> Hypothetically, how would you go about staying online completely independently? Off the top of my head, things like IPFS (InterPlanetary File System) or the blockchain

brianush1 6y ago
You can't use IPFS or the blockchain without having a connection to the internet in the first place. If all the ISPs decided to refuse you service, there'd be no way to stay connected to the internet.

j2kun 6y ago

> Is there any law that says AT&T etc. cannot refuse service? Literally Trump's appointee for the FCC removed that regulation (it was called net neutrality).

whoisjohnkid 6y ago

Build app on some sort of decentralized blockchain ... though it might be a hurdle to get the average person to use it

tomjakubowski 6y ago

> the local electric and water companies are not allowed to turn off your service as long as you are paying the bill. Public utilities are required to guarantee service as a condition of the monopoly granted them by the state. The server hosting market isn't a monopoly at all, let alone one mandated by the state. Maybe your point does stand at the ISP level. It probably should since in most places there are just a couple of them, and Internet access is close enough to essential today. https://www.nclc.org/images/pdf/older_consumers/consumer_facts/cf_dealing_with_utility_companies.pdf https://www.nclc.org/images/pdf/older_consumers/consumer_fac...

zelly 6y ago
Tier 1 and 2 is as much of a monopoly as public utilities. If they all deny me service, it would be as hard to get connected as it would be to build my own water pipeline.

ultimoo 6y ago

Thanks for posting this, I was pondering along the same lines! > Every other utility seems to be regulated. For example even if you have a Confederate flag or a picture of Stalin outside your house, the local electric and water companies are not allowed to turn off your service as long as you are paying the bill. TIL that this is due to the implied monopoly. I think the difference is that electricity and water are required for survival but internet isn't so it isn't regulated as such. This can also be extended to the difference in buying milk (walk in and pay cash) vs. buying alcohol (need a current govt issued ID).

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

Triv888 6y ago

Host it in a different country... But it could of course still get blocked by the US government.

zelly 6y ago
The interesting thing about Parler is that the US government and its laws are neutral to it, but no US corporations wish to carry the liability of serving them--regardless of the money they offer. Legally, Parler could operate but no laws exist to guarantee it can. If this scenario played out in another business, like a restaurant, then nobody could really stop them from operating. Even if the food supply companies stopped delivering, there is a decentralized network of small farmers and transportation companies that could pick up the slack. No such counterpart exists with internet companies. You're either part of the grid or you're out. Come to think of it, that could explain a lot.
- Triv888 6y ago
  > [...] but no US corporations wish to carry the liability of serving them [...] are there even any liabilities? I think that they are only trying to block communications (which probably won't work in the end)