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>we'll get close enough that a stable "red social media" ecosystem will emerge that's out of reach of cancellation. In the long run this may work out worse for

by scythe 6y ago

>we'll get close enough that a stable "red social media" ecosystem will emerge that's out of reach of cancellation. In the long run this may work out worse for everyone. I would expect the same, but substitute "worse" for "better". Trumpism lives on conflict and trolling. There's nobody to troll on Parler. It's affective politics as much as ideological: they may believe awful things, but they're mostly out to have a good time. Parler is like a video game with all the cheat codes on; it will entertain them at first, but they'll get bored quickly. What they'll do next I'm not sure, but the whole political success of Trumpism was based on turnout, which was based on enthusiasm. Facebook and Twitter are enthusiasm-generating machines, and cutting Trump supporters off is not much different than cutting off a bar patron who's clearly had seven too many. They might make new social networks, but they won't be as good, and that's enough.

lawnchair_larry 6y ago
In no way does this describe conservative discourse. This just demonstrates how far apart the bubbles are growing.
- scythe 6y ago
  I've given them far more than the benefit of the doubt. If you think your movement can survive without trolling, you're free to demonstrate that over the coming months.
shripadk 6y ago
This is what happens when you live in your own bubble and don't even bother to talk to Trump supporters and look past the memes and trolling. The memes and trolling were a necessary part of "waking the sheeple" discourse from what I understand Trumpism is. There is a World beyond all that which only those who have looked past the memes and trolling can actually understand. But given that you live in your own safe bubble you'll never know it. That's the whole point of this situation. We are already living in a balkanized internet where everyone has found their ideological safe zones and no one is willing to learn and engage with the other. It is exact opposite to what the internet was in the 90s and 2000s where you would actively seek out people with different ideologies and characters - especially the odd and crazy ones. It is sad to see this happen because I have seen how internet evolved since the 90s. It was a fun place. It is no more. Now we have mapped our real life to virtual life to such an extent that we have melted the barrier that existed in the beginning. Internet was a place where you could assume any identity and would get respect from everyone and be treated the same. A 13 year old kid could interact with a 50 year old adult on programming topics and both wouldn't know their real identities except for the discussion at hand. That internet doesn't exist anymore.
- DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
  > don't even bother to talk to Trump supporters and look past the memes and trolling We did, but when we challenged their fundamental assumptions about the world or proposed alternatives in earnest reasoned debate and discourse they called us “cucks” and what can you do at that point? Yes, there are people who have been left-behind and find themselves economically disadvantaged by the changing world (e.g. The rust-belt) - but that’s not the basis of “Trumpism” - Reactionary right-wing politics draws on that group but it isn’t the cause nor basis for it. Remember that Trump isn’t really that popular amongst actually poor people - he’s popular with people who grew up in an environment that promoted what we now call /toxic individualism/. And America has a long tradition of it.
  - shripadk 6y ago
    > we challenged their fundamental assumptions about the world or proposed alternatives they called us “cucks” and what can you do at that point That's not true at all for most Trump supporters. If you have trouble finding answers to your questions I can give them to you. I won't call you a cuck and will engage in a proper debate. Even though I don't subscribe to all of Trump's policies I'm a right winger and a conservative. Another point to note: I don't subscribe to all of Trump's policies because the right wing in America is different from right wing in my country in many respects. But there is sufficient overlap to be able to say I can agree to many of the conservative points in US politics as well. So if you have questions regarding my ideology fire away and I'll try my best to answer.
  - Nathanba 6y ago
    If that is the extent of effort you went to understand the other side then you never understood it. Can you give a reasoned, principled argument against open borders, transsexualism, liberalism itself? if you cant, you dont understand. You went to Trump supporters like to an ATM expecting a full service withdrawal. Life doesn't work that way, people dont either
    - scythe 6y ago
      >Can you give a reasoned, principled argument against open borders, transsexualism, liberalism itself? I've heard plenty of reasoned arguments against those things. Here's the problem: they weren't given by Trump supporters. They came from moderates, or in some cases, from Marxists. Trumpism isn't just opposition to what Fox News says the Democratic Party supports. It's the belief structure that convinces people that "open borders" is even on the table in modern politics at all (it isn't). If you think that "open borders" is more likely in the next two decades than the country being destroyed by an asteroid impact, you're already in the disinformation hole.
DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
> Parler is like a video game with all the cheat codes on; it will entertain them at first, but they'll get bored quickly. When I was much younger - like, 8-9-10yo, PC games were hard for me: younger age, smaller-mind. I’d use my limited time on my 28.8 dialup to get cheat codes and burn hours of my life having fun in the single-player skirmish/instant-action-mode (as opposed to campaign/story mode - this was before always-on internet and built-in matchmaking, ofc) - and I never got bored of it. I didn’t get tired of winning. Not that “winning” was the objective, but just blowing stuff up in Streets-of-SimCity or spamming the easter-egg nuke-troopers in Age of Empires was enough to entertain me. I didn’t stop cheating at single-player PC games until after I was old enough to understand how to actually play the game and started to appreciate the challenge and enjoy the satisfaction of overcoming that challenge. As a comparison - I see similarities with the types of people on Parler: there’s no appreciation of /the system/ - just a desire to be-on-top, stay-on-top, and have fun blowing shit up. They either don’t enjoy “the game” or they’re unable to play it, so they’ve invented their own game. Hence, the “like playing chess with a pigeon” idiom: shitting on the chessboard is more fun for them than playing by the rules.
- xnx 6y ago
  The game analogy is interesting because this is clearly a bunch of sore losers.

by scythe 6y ago

lawnchair_larry 6y ago

In no way does this describe conservative discourse. This just demonstrates how far apart the bubbles are growing.

scythe 6y ago
I've given them far more than the benefit of the doubt. If you think your movement can survive without trolling, you're free to demonstrate that over the coming months.

shripadk 6y ago

This is what happens when you live in your own bubble and don't even bother to talk to Trump supporters and look past the memes and trolling. The memes and trolling were a necessary part of "waking the sheeple" discourse from what I understand Trumpism is. There is a World beyond all that which only those who have looked past the memes and trolling can actually understand. But given that you live in your own safe bubble you'll never know it. That's the whole point of this situation. We are already living in a balkanized internet where everyone has found their ideological safe zones and no one is willing to learn and engage with the other. It is exact opposite to what the internet was in the 90s and 2000s where you would actively seek out people with different ideologies and characters - especially the odd and crazy ones. It is sad to see this happen because I have seen how internet evolved since the 90s. It was a fun place. It is no more. Now we have mapped our real life to virtual life to such an extent that we have melted the barrier that existed in the beginning. Internet was a place where you could assume any identity and would get respect from everyone and be treated the same. A 13 year old kid could interact with a 50 year old adult on programming topics and both wouldn't know their real identities except for the discussion at hand. That internet doesn't exist anymore.

DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
> don't even bother to talk to Trump supporters and look past the memes and trolling We did, but when we challenged their fundamental assumptions about the world or proposed alternatives in earnest reasoned debate and discourse they called us “cucks” and what can you do at that point? Yes, there are people who have been left-behind and find themselves economically disadvantaged by the changing world (e.g. The rust-belt) - but that’s not the basis of “Trumpism” - Reactionary right-wing politics draws on that group but it isn’t the cause nor basis for it. Remember that Trump isn’t really that popular amongst actually poor people - he’s popular with people who grew up in an environment that promoted what we now call /toxic individualism/. And America has a long tradition of it.
- shripadk 6y ago
  > we challenged their fundamental assumptions about the world or proposed alternatives they called us “cucks” and what can you do at that point That's not true at all for most Trump supporters. If you have trouble finding answers to your questions I can give them to you. I won't call you a cuck and will engage in a proper debate. Even though I don't subscribe to all of Trump's policies I'm a right winger and a conservative. Another point to note: I don't subscribe to all of Trump's policies because the right wing in America is different from right wing in my country in many respects. But there is sufficient overlap to be able to say I can agree to many of the conservative points in US politics as well. So if you have questions regarding my ideology fire away and I'll try my best to answer.
- Nathanba 6y ago
  If that is the extent of effort you went to understand the other side then you never understood it. Can you give a reasoned, principled argument against open borders, transsexualism, liberalism itself? if you cant, you dont understand. You went to Trump supporters like to an ATM expecting a full service withdrawal. Life doesn't work that way, people dont either
  - scythe 6y ago
    >Can you give a reasoned, principled argument against open borders, transsexualism, liberalism itself? I've heard plenty of reasoned arguments against those things. Here's the problem: they weren't given by Trump supporters. They came from moderates, or in some cases, from Marxists. Trumpism isn't just opposition to what Fox News says the Democratic Party supports. It's the belief structure that convinces people that "open borders" is even on the table in modern politics at all (it isn't). If you think that "open borders" is more likely in the next two decades than the country being destroyed by an asteroid impact, you're already in the disinformation hole.

DaiPlusPlus 6y ago

> Parler is like a video game with all the cheat codes on; it will entertain them at first, but they'll get bored quickly. When I was much younger - like, 8-9-10yo, PC games were hard for me: younger age, smaller-mind. I’d use my limited time on my 28.8 dialup to get cheat codes and burn hours of my life having fun in the single-player skirmish/instant-action-mode (as opposed to campaign/story mode - this was before always-on internet and built-in matchmaking, ofc) - and I never got bored of it. I didn’t get tired of winning. Not that “winning” was the objective, but just blowing stuff up in Streets-of-SimCity or spamming the easter-egg nuke-troopers in Age of Empires was enough to entertain me. I didn’t stop cheating at single-player PC games until after I was old enough to understand how to actually play the game and started to appreciate the challenge and enjoy the satisfaction of overcoming that challenge. As a comparison - I see similarities with the types of people on Parler: there’s no appreciation of /the system/ - just a desire to be-on-top, stay-on-top, and have fun blowing shit up. They either don’t enjoy “the game” or they’re unable to play it, so they’ve invented their own game. Hence, the “like playing chess with a pigeon” idiom: shitting on the chessboard is more fun for them than playing by the rules.

xnx 6y ago
The game analogy is interesting because this is clearly a bunch of sore losers.