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> Political ideology that is unethical deserves no platform I like the implication that ~half the country is just blanket "unethical" and doesn't deserve to sp

> Political ideology that is unethical deserves no platform I like the implication that ~half the country is just blanket "unethical" and doesn't deserve to speak.

pmiller2 6y ago
I'm pretty okay with silencing racism, fascism, nationalism, and misogynism, myself. How about you?
- smsm42 6y ago
  I'm pretty not okay with silencing everybody that anybody can call "racism", provided that pretty much anything nowdays can be called racist - from Abraham Lincoln (https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/education/university/uw-madison-students-call-for-removal-of-abraham-lincoln-statue-on-bascom-hill/article_b12c83c9-38a1-5e68-9964-beabe4046d02.html https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/education/university/uw-m...) to yoga (https://www.foxnews.com/us/americans-who-practice-yoga-contribute-to-white-supremacy-michigan-state-university-professor-claims https://www.foxnews.com/us/americans-who-practice-yoga-contr...). Sorry, can't find a "z" one, but I'm sure somebody somewhere called it racist too. So no, I'm not OK with banning everything from Abraham Lincoln to yoga.
  - pmiller2 6y ago
    Zionism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_3379 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembl... You're welcome. I'm pretty okay with the Abe Lincoln angle, but the yoga article is ridiculously fringe thinking that nobody could possibly take seriously.
    - blisterpeanuts 6y ago
      Zoroastrianism?
      - pmiller2 6y ago
        Maybe, but I'm not even sure if there are many Zoroastrians left, much less whether they're racist or not.
      - smsm42 6y ago
        Best I could find is this: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2013/dec/08/zorastrianism-adapt-archaic-laws-die-parsi https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2013/dec/08... which implies it's an ethno-centric religion, so a hostile observer surely could call it "racist" (in an extended sense, where "racism" means exclusion by any ethnic origin, not just specifically the color of one's skin - just as antisemitism is commonly considered under the same term, even if majority of Jews it's directed at are of the same race as their persecutors).
    - smsm42 6y ago
      Of course, Zionism, that was easy. So I guess Israel gets to be booted off the internet too. No problem, it's not like they have any hitech industry to speak of. One day I'd say the idea that AWS is booting people for disagreement with their political stances is a "ridiculously fringe thinking". Or that monuments to Lincoln and Washington (and also Cervantes and Frederick Douglass, why not) will be destroyed as racist is a "ridiculously fringe thinking" and would laugh at anyone suggesting this. Today it is our ridiculous reality.
      - pmiller2 6y ago
        I'm totally okay with suppressing the influence of an apartheid state. Are you? Pretty much everyone was racist 120 years ago. Less, even, but, still 120 years ago is a safe buffer. I don't think building monuments to people who ordered the massacre of natives in the name of manifest destiny is a great idea, just as I don't think having monuments to Nathan Bedford Forrest is a great idea, either. America's fetishization of its dead rulers is really second only to ancient Rome, a culture where they literally proclaimed their dead rulers to be gods. Lincoln, Washington, and Cervantes were racist, because the times they lived in were racist. We can do better, and uncritical reverence doesn't help us do that.
        aluminum96 6y ago
        It's clearly a losing position to argue that AWS should ban content related to Abraham Lincoln grounds of racism. In fact, this so egregiously fails the "smell test" that I don't think it's a useful analogy for this week's events.
        pmiller2 6y ago
        Who said they should?
        smsm42 6y ago
        > I'm totally okay with suppressing the influence of an apartheid state. Are you? It looks like you just are OK to suppress any point of view that you don't like. And not OK with freedom of speech. Fortunately for you - and unfortunately for everybody for whom it's still valuable - US is no longer a country where freedom of speech exists. I am not OK with this, and I think we are entering a period in American history which will be looked by descendants with deep shame and disgust, and this is due to people like you. Welcome to your 1984, and hope you never utter an unpopular thought.
- CyberDildonics 6y ago
  I'm not ok with completely silencing anyone, but I am ok with extreme toxicity correlating with difficulty of amplification. I don't think alex jones should be cut off from the internet or his home ISP, but I don't think twitter, facebook, youtube, google or anyone else has an obligation to broadcast him if they choose not to for example.
- centimeter 6y ago
  > I'm pretty okay with silencing racism, fascism, nationalism, and misogynism And progressives have redefined these words to encompass basically every single political belief of ~half the country. Say something semantically meaningful.

> Political ideology that is unethical deserves no platform I like the implication that ~half the country is just blanket "unethical" and doesn't deserve to speak.

pmiller2 6y ago

I'm pretty okay with silencing racism, fascism, nationalism, and misogynism, myself. How about you?

smsm42 6y ago
I'm pretty not okay with silencing everybody that anybody can call "racism", provided that pretty much anything nowdays can be called racist - from Abraham Lincoln (https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/education/university/uw-madison-students-call-for-removal-of-abraham-lincoln-statue-on-bascom-hill/article_b12c83c9-38a1-5e68-9964-beabe4046d02.html https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/education/university/uw-m...) to yoga (https://www.foxnews.com/us/americans-who-practice-yoga-contribute-to-white-supremacy-michigan-state-university-professor-claims https://www.foxnews.com/us/americans-who-practice-yoga-contr...). Sorry, can't find a "z" one, but I'm sure somebody somewhere called it racist too. So no, I'm not OK with banning everything from Abraham Lincoln to yoga.
- pmiller2 6y ago
  Zionism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_3379 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembl... You're welcome. I'm pretty okay with the Abe Lincoln angle, but the yoga article is ridiculously fringe thinking that nobody could possibly take seriously.
  - blisterpeanuts 6y ago
    Zoroastrianism?
    - pmiller2 6y ago
      Maybe, but I'm not even sure if there are many Zoroastrians left, much less whether they're racist or not.
    - smsm42 6y ago
      Best I could find is this: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2013/dec/08/zorastrianism-adapt-archaic-laws-die-parsi https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2013/dec/08... which implies it's an ethno-centric religion, so a hostile observer surely could call it "racist" (in an extended sense, where "racism" means exclusion by any ethnic origin, not just specifically the color of one's skin - just as antisemitism is commonly considered under the same term, even if majority of Jews it's directed at are of the same race as their persecutors).
  - smsm42 6y ago
    Of course, Zionism, that was easy. So I guess Israel gets to be booted off the internet too. No problem, it's not like they have any hitech industry to speak of. One day I'd say the idea that AWS is booting people for disagreement with their political stances is a "ridiculously fringe thinking". Or that monuments to Lincoln and Washington (and also Cervantes and Frederick Douglass, why not) will be destroyed as racist is a "ridiculously fringe thinking" and would laugh at anyone suggesting this. Today it is our ridiculous reality.
    - pmiller2 6y ago
      I'm totally okay with suppressing the influence of an apartheid state. Are you? Pretty much everyone was racist 120 years ago. Less, even, but, still 120 years ago is a safe buffer. I don't think building monuments to people who ordered the massacre of natives in the name of manifest destiny is a great idea, just as I don't think having monuments to Nathan Bedford Forrest is a great idea, either. America's fetishization of its dead rulers is really second only to ancient Rome, a culture where they literally proclaimed their dead rulers to be gods. Lincoln, Washington, and Cervantes were racist, because the times they lived in were racist. We can do better, and uncritical reverence doesn't help us do that.
      - aluminum96 6y ago
        It's clearly a losing position to argue that AWS should ban content related to Abraham Lincoln grounds of racism. In fact, this so egregiously fails the "smell test" that I don't think it's a useful analogy for this week's events.
        pmiller2 6y ago
        Who said they should?
      - smsm42 6y ago
        > I'm totally okay with suppressing the influence of an apartheid state. Are you? It looks like you just are OK to suppress any point of view that you don't like. And not OK with freedom of speech. Fortunately for you - and unfortunately for everybody for whom it's still valuable - US is no longer a country where freedom of speech exists. I am not OK with this, and I think we are entering a period in American history which will be looked by descendants with deep shame and disgust, and this is due to people like you. Welcome to your 1984, and hope you never utter an unpopular thought.
CyberDildonics 6y ago
I'm not ok with completely silencing anyone, but I am ok with extreme toxicity correlating with difficulty of amplification. I don't think alex jones should be cut off from the internet or his home ISP, but I don't think twitter, facebook, youtube, google or anyone else has an obligation to broadcast him if they choose not to for example.
centimeter 6y ago
> I'm pretty okay with silencing racism, fascism, nationalism, and misogynism And progressives have redefined these words to encompass basically every single political belief of ~half the country. Say something semantically meaningful.