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There is a very big distinction between some diversion of funding and responsibility away from police towards those issues and abolishing the police. Anyone wh

by zepto 6y ago

There is a very big distinction between some diversion of funding and responsibility away from police towards those issues and abolishing the police. Anyone who says it doesn’t mean abolish the police is ignoring the fact that for many activists it does mean abolish the police. The hashtag does not imply abolishing the police, but that is exactly what defund the police means to many people.

Rapzid 6y ago
Abolishing the police is a rather fringe idea though, and it's not the colloquial meaning for "defund the police"(a terrible catch phrase BTW). Representing it as such seams misinformed at best, but likely(IMHO) disingenuous.
- zepto 6y ago
  Colin Kapaernic is probably the best known activist against police brutality towards black people in the USA. He defines it as abolishing the police. I have come across many activists who want to abolish the police. I would assume that most vaguely left leaning people wouldn’t support that as a policy, but it is certainly not a ‘fringe’ definition from the point of view of the activist community with whom it is most associated. There is absolutely nothing disingenuous about recognizing that mainstream activists do mean to abolish the police. We have to accept that both definitions are in use. What is disingenuous, is to dismiss or deny the idea that anyone other than opponents of it think it means abolish the police. That is essentially a motte-and-bailey tactic, and all it does is stop honest discussion.
TeaDrunk 6y ago
The second hashtag in question says: 'reappropriatefundsfromthepolicetosocialservicesbetterabletohandlenonviolentissues' which is about what Colin is literally saying in that quote.
- zepto 6y ago
  No. He is not just talking about reappropriating funds. He is saying the police must be completely abolished. The quote begins “By abolishing policing and prisons...” You seem to have overlooked this somehow. The name he has chosen for his project is: “Abolition for the People, The Movement for a Future Without Policing & Prisons” It couldn’t be any clearer.
  - TeaDrunk 6y ago
    Yes, by abolishing policing, you can reappropriate those funds for other projects. This is literally what he's saying. It is literally reappropriating the funds.
    - zepto 6y ago
      No. Reappropriating funds does not mean abolishing the police. You can reappropriate funds without abolishing the police, for example by reducing their duties. He is saying both abolish the police and reappropriate the funds. They are plainly not literally the same thing.

by zepto 6y ago

Rapzid 6y ago

Abolishing the police is a rather fringe idea though, and it's not the colloquial meaning for "defund the police"(a terrible catch phrase BTW). Representing it as such seams misinformed at best, but likely(IMHO) disingenuous.

zepto 6y ago
Colin Kapaernic is probably the best known activist against police brutality towards black people in the USA. He defines it as abolishing the police. I have come across many activists who want to abolish the police. I would assume that most vaguely left leaning people wouldn’t support that as a policy, but it is certainly not a ‘fringe’ definition from the point of view of the activist community with whom it is most associated. There is absolutely nothing disingenuous about recognizing that mainstream activists do mean to abolish the police. We have to accept that both definitions are in use. What is disingenuous, is to dismiss or deny the idea that anyone other than opponents of it think it means abolish the police. That is essentially a motte-and-bailey tactic, and all it does is stop honest discussion.

TeaDrunk 6y ago

The second hashtag in question says: 'reappropriatefundsfromthepolicetosocialservicesbetterabletohandlenonviolentissues' which is about what Colin is literally saying in that quote.

zepto 6y ago
No. He is not just talking about reappropriating funds. He is saying the police must be completely abolished. The quote begins “By abolishing policing and prisons...” You seem to have overlooked this somehow. The name he has chosen for his project is: “Abolition for the People, The Movement for a Future Without Policing & Prisons” It couldn’t be any clearer.
- TeaDrunk 6y ago
  Yes, by abolishing policing, you can reappropriate those funds for other projects. This is literally what he's saying. It is literally reappropriating the funds.
  - zepto 6y ago
    No. Reappropriating funds does not mean abolishing the police. You can reappropriate funds without abolishing the police, for example by reducing their duties. He is saying both abolish the police and reappropriate the funds. They are plainly not literally the same thing.