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Funny how critics of #defundthepolice willing ignore that it has always meant #reappropriatefundsfromthepolicetosocialservicesbetterabletohandlenonviolentissues

rayiner 6y ago
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abol... > Yes, We Mean Literally Abolish the Police It’s not some unjustified fearmongering. Anarchists literally took over part of Seattle. At my university, protestors are demanding to completely dismantle the campus police: https://www.wbez.org/stories/northwesterns-president-and-students-engage-in-heated-dispute-over-abolishing-campus-police/b08e0fcd-e9ed-4bea-bf83-216d4c1c46c9 https://www.wbez.org/stories/northwesterns-president-and-stu...
- slothtrop 6y ago
  University antics operate in their own bubble. A fraction want abolition, but they'd also plainly say so. "Defund" by definition doesn't mean abolish.
  - rhino369 6y ago
    It does unless you expect them to work for free and pay for their own operations somehow.
    - slothtrop 6y ago
      The demands have been made abundantly clear: they want demilitarization, and other health-focused services to take over in areas where police response is overkill and inappropriate. That's literally it. This isn't hard to find.
- tptacek 6y ago
  You're right. And yet, weirdly, it's the people who flew the Thin Blue Line flag who beat a police officer to death with a fire extinguisher. (If this reads like snark, I don't mean it that way; I'm interested in what you think about that observation.)
zepto 6y ago
Some people mean that, others mean literal abolition: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/colin-kaepernick-abolish-police-prisons-essay-medium-2020-10-08/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/colin-kaepernick-abolish-police...
- TeaDrunk 6y ago
  That very same essay literally means the other hashtag so I'm confused: "By abolishing policing and prisons, not only can we eliminate white supremacist establishments, but we can create space for budgets to be reinvested directly into communities to address mental health needs, homelessness and houselessness, access to education, and job creation as well as community-based methods of accountability. This is a future that centers the needs of the people, a future that will make us safer, healthier, and truly free."
  - zepto 6y ago
    There is a very big distinction between some diversion of funding and responsibility away from police towards those issues and abolishing the police. Anyone who says it doesn’t mean abolish the police is ignoring the fact that for many activists it does mean abolish the police. The hashtag does not imply abolishing the police, but that is exactly what defund the police means to many people.
    - Rapzid 6y ago
      Abolishing the police is a rather fringe idea though, and it's not the colloquial meaning for "defund the police"(a terrible catch phrase BTW). Representing it as such seams misinformed at best, but likely(IMHO) disingenuous.
      - zepto 6y ago
        Colin Kapaernic is probably the best known activist against police brutality towards black people in the USA. He defines it as abolishing the police. I have come across many activists who want to abolish the police. I would assume that most vaguely left leaning people wouldn’t support that as a policy, but it is certainly not a ‘fringe’ definition from the point of view of the activist community with whom it is most associated. There is absolutely nothing disingenuous about recognizing that mainstream activists do mean to abolish the police. We have to accept that both definitions are in use. What is disingenuous, is to dismiss or deny the idea that anyone other than opponents of it think it means abolish the police. That is essentially a motte-and-bailey tactic, and all it does is stop honest discussion.
ffggvv 6y ago
since when do libs care about the budget? lol. they could just appropriate new funds to social services like they do for every other issue.

rayiner 6y ago

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abol... > Yes, We Mean Literally Abolish the Police It’s not some unjustified fearmongering. Anarchists literally took over part of Seattle. At my university, protestors are demanding to completely dismantle the campus police: https://www.wbez.org/stories/northwesterns-president-and-students-engage-in-heated-dispute-over-abolishing-campus-police/b08e0fcd-e9ed-4bea-bf83-216d4c1c46c9 https://www.wbez.org/stories/northwesterns-president-and-stu...

slothtrop 6y ago
University antics operate in their own bubble. A fraction want abolition, but they'd also plainly say so. "Defund" by definition doesn't mean abolish.
- rhino369 6y ago
  It does unless you expect them to work for free and pay for their own operations somehow.
  - slothtrop 6y ago
    The demands have been made abundantly clear: they want demilitarization, and other health-focused services to take over in areas where police response is overkill and inappropriate. That's literally it. This isn't hard to find.
tptacek 6y ago
You're right. And yet, weirdly, it's the people who flew the Thin Blue Line flag who beat a police officer to death with a fire extinguisher. (If this reads like snark, I don't mean it that way; I'm interested in what you think about that observation.)

zepto 6y ago

Some people mean that, others mean literal abolition: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/colin-kaepernick-abolish-police-prisons-essay-medium-2020-10-08/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/colin-kaepernick-abolish-police...

TeaDrunk 6y ago
That very same essay literally means the other hashtag so I'm confused: "By abolishing policing and prisons, not only can we eliminate white supremacist establishments, but we can create space for budgets to be reinvested directly into communities to address mental health needs, homelessness and houselessness, access to education, and job creation as well as community-based methods of accountability. This is a future that centers the needs of the people, a future that will make us safer, healthier, and truly free."
- zepto 6y ago
  There is a very big distinction between some diversion of funding and responsibility away from police towards those issues and abolishing the police. Anyone who says it doesn’t mean abolish the police is ignoring the fact that for many activists it does mean abolish the police. The hashtag does not imply abolishing the police, but that is exactly what defund the police means to many people.
  - Rapzid 6y ago
    Abolishing the police is a rather fringe idea though, and it's not the colloquial meaning for "defund the police"(a terrible catch phrase BTW). Representing it as such seams misinformed at best, but likely(IMHO) disingenuous.
    - zepto 6y ago
      Colin Kapaernic is probably the best known activist against police brutality towards black people in the USA. He defines it as abolishing the police. I have come across many activists who want to abolish the police. I would assume that most vaguely left leaning people wouldn’t support that as a policy, but it is certainly not a ‘fringe’ definition from the point of view of the activist community with whom it is most associated. There is absolutely nothing disingenuous about recognizing that mainstream activists do mean to abolish the police. We have to accept that both definitions are in use. What is disingenuous, is to dismiss or deny the idea that anyone other than opponents of it think it means abolish the police. That is essentially a motte-and-bailey tactic, and all it does is stop honest discussion.

ffggvv 6y ago

since when do libs care about the budget? lol. they could just appropriate new funds to social services like they do for every other issue.