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It's been time for a long time to stop pretending Taiwan is not a critical ally of the USA and that we would ever allow the CCP to absorb them. They deserve our

by Rapzid 6y ago

It's been time for a long time to stop pretending Taiwan is not a critical ally of the USA and that we would ever allow the CCP to absorb them. They deserve our recognition and support on the international stage.

beerandt 6y ago
I absolutely agree. The political reality of the current US/Taiwan relationship is so absurd. We sell fighter jets to a country we don't even officially recognize. That's not some CIA insurrection level slush fund. Which always reminds me that no matter what "inviable" international laws or standards the civilized world pretends to adhere to, that it's all a sham, and sovereign nations, especially the US, can find a way to legally justify whatever the hell it is they want to do.
- Rapzid 6y ago
  And the "T" in TSMC is, of course, for "Taiwan". They aren't simply a geopolitical asset as an ally in the Indo Pacific strategy acting a buffer against CCP influence; they are a manufacturing partner supplying critical infrastructure that is likely considered of national security interest to the West.
coryrc 6y ago
We're only pretending. Saving face is critical when negotiating in the East. If we can let the mainland save face and it costs us little of importance, why act otherwise? Also, Taiwan itself is not unified. Around a third want to unify with the CCP.
- Jasonnor 6y ago
  > Around a third want to unify with the CCP. I am from Taiwan. Where does the data for your sentence come from? As far as I know, the proportion of people who want to be unified with CCP is only 2.4%. Reference: https://esc.nccu.edu.tw/PageDoc/Detail?fid=7804&id=6960 https://esc.nccu.edu.tw/PageDoc/Detail?fid=7804&id=6960
  - perennate 6y ago
    This is about cultural identity though. The link should be https://esc.nccu.edu.tw/PageDoc/Detail?fid=7805&id=6962 https://esc.nccu.edu.tw/PageDoc/Detail?fid=7805&id=6962 which shows 0.7+6.8 = 7.5% supporting eventual re-unification with 0.7% supporting immediate re-unification.
  - coryrc 6y ago
    Isn't the KMT's position re-unification and has support of about a third of the electorate? Though there's clearly a strong shift in the last two years.
- puppymaster 6y ago
  and 35% of Chinese doesn't mind Taiwan independence. What is your point?
- perennate 6y ago
  The KMT does not want to eventually re-unify the PRC. They merely want to continue pretending to want to eventually re-unify with the PRC to maintain good economic relations. Because the PRC accounts for 28% of Taiwan's exports and 19% of Taiwan's imports (https://www.wto.org/english/res_e/statis_e/daily_update_e/trade_profiles/TW_e.pdf https://www.wto.org/english/res_e/statis_e/daily_update_e/tr...). Really hardly anyone in Taiwan wants to re-unify with the PRC, they have seen the genocide the fascist CCP is committing against the Uighur people in Xinjiang, if the CCP repeats this in Taiwan and exterminates or sterilizes millions of Taiwanese it would be devastating. Nobody wants to bear witness to genocide, but even more so, nobody wants to be a victim to genocide, so supporting re-unification would be senseless.
  - coryrc 6y ago
    My understanding of opinion polls referenced here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_unification#Taiwan_(ROC) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_unification#Taiwan_(RO... States {polls consistently found 70% to 80% of all residents in Taiwan opposed to unification through CCP's "One country, two systems"} which means 20-30% are for it? I definitely don't know enough to know if people are pretending to want reunification or actually do.
    - perennate 6y ago
      Hm you're right, I checked https://jamestown.org/program/taiwan-opinion-polling-on-unification-with-china/ https://jamestown.org/program/taiwan-opinion-polling-on-unif... and https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3951560 https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3951560 and it seems the 30% supporting eventual unification claim is correct according to recent polling, with 11% supporting sooner unification (i.e. unify even if PRC still has a Nazi government). Edit: according to https://esc.nccu.edu.tw/PageDoc/Detail?fid=7805&id=6962 https://esc.nccu.edu.tw/PageDoc/Detail?fid=7805&id=6962 (which has a finer breakdown) the number is 7.5%, but the jamestown.org article links to data also collected by NCCU (but maybe a different group), so I'm not sure what the distinction is.
mc32 6y ago
Agreed. It’s such a blatant and transparent act of willful pretense. Don't call the embassy an embassy even though it’s an embassy. Oh, don’t let them on the international stage but instead work with them via underlings and back channels in the open. A real life farce. They should have set up an embassy first thing. Maybe Biden will have the guts, but he’ll chicken out like everyone else most likely and continue the public farce.

by Rapzid 6y ago

beerandt 6y ago

I absolutely agree. The political reality of the current US/Taiwan relationship is so absurd. We sell fighter jets to a country we don't even officially recognize. That's not some CIA insurrection level slush fund. Which always reminds me that no matter what "inviable" international laws or standards the civilized world pretends to adhere to, that it's all a sham, and sovereign nations, especially the US, can find a way to legally justify whatever the hell it is they want to do.

Rapzid 6y ago
And the "T" in TSMC is, of course, for "Taiwan". They aren't simply a geopolitical asset as an ally in the Indo Pacific strategy acting a buffer against CCP influence; they are a manufacturing partner supplying critical infrastructure that is likely considered of national security interest to the West.

coryrc 6y ago

We're only pretending. Saving face is critical when negotiating in the East. If we can let the mainland save face and it costs us little of importance, why act otherwise? Also, Taiwan itself is not unified. Around a third want to unify with the CCP.

Jasonnor 6y ago
> Around a third want to unify with the CCP. I am from Taiwan. Where does the data for your sentence come from? As far as I know, the proportion of people who want to be unified with CCP is only 2.4%. Reference: https://esc.nccu.edu.tw/PageDoc/Detail?fid=7804&id=6960 https://esc.nccu.edu.tw/PageDoc/Detail?fid=7804&id=6960
- perennate 6y ago
  This is about cultural identity though. The link should be https://esc.nccu.edu.tw/PageDoc/Detail?fid=7805&id=6962 https://esc.nccu.edu.tw/PageDoc/Detail?fid=7805&id=6962 which shows 0.7+6.8 = 7.5% supporting eventual re-unification with 0.7% supporting immediate re-unification.
- coryrc 6y ago
  Isn't the KMT's position re-unification and has support of about a third of the electorate? Though there's clearly a strong shift in the last two years.
puppymaster 6y ago
and 35% of Chinese doesn't mind Taiwan independence. What is your point?
perennate 6y ago
The KMT does not want to eventually re-unify the PRC. They merely want to continue pretending to want to eventually re-unify with the PRC to maintain good economic relations. Because the PRC accounts for 28% of Taiwan's exports and 19% of Taiwan's imports (https://www.wto.org/english/res_e/statis_e/daily_update_e/trade_profiles/TW_e.pdf https://www.wto.org/english/res_e/statis_e/daily_update_e/tr...). Really hardly anyone in Taiwan wants to re-unify with the PRC, they have seen the genocide the fascist CCP is committing against the Uighur people in Xinjiang, if the CCP repeats this in Taiwan and exterminates or sterilizes millions of Taiwanese it would be devastating. Nobody wants to bear witness to genocide, but even more so, nobody wants to be a victim to genocide, so supporting re-unification would be senseless.
- coryrc 6y ago
  My understanding of opinion polls referenced here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_unification#Taiwan_(ROC) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_unification#Taiwan_(RO... States {polls consistently found 70% to 80% of all residents in Taiwan opposed to unification through CCP's "One country, two systems"} which means 20-30% are for it? I definitely don't know enough to know if people are pretending to want reunification or actually do.
  - perennate 6y ago
    Hm you're right, I checked https://jamestown.org/program/taiwan-opinion-polling-on-unification-with-china/ https://jamestown.org/program/taiwan-opinion-polling-on-unif... and https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3951560 https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3951560 and it seems the 30% supporting eventual unification claim is correct according to recent polling, with 11% supporting sooner unification (i.e. unify even if PRC still has a Nazi government). Edit: according to https://esc.nccu.edu.tw/PageDoc/Detail?fid=7805&id=6962 https://esc.nccu.edu.tw/PageDoc/Detail?fid=7805&id=6962 (which has a finer breakdown) the number is 7.5%, but the jamestown.org article links to data also collected by NCCU (but maybe a different group), so I'm not sure what the distinction is.

mc32 6y ago

Agreed. It’s such a blatant and transparent act of willful pretense. Don't call the embassy an embassy even though it’s an embassy. Oh, don’t let them on the international stage but instead work with them via underlings and back channels in the open. A real life farce. They should have set up an embassy first thing. Maybe Biden will have the guts, but he’ll chicken out like everyone else most likely and continue the public farce.