3 ms·

The proposed mechanism for HCQ (zinc affinity) implies that it would be most effective if taken before the onset of symptoms, perhaps even before viral load is

The proposed mechanism for HCQ (zinc affinity) implies that it would be most effective if taken before the onset of symptoms, perhaps even before viral load is high enough to test positive. Obviously this makes it challenging to do a study. Nearly all studies that I’m aware of are initiated on patients that are already showing symptoms, because the patients are enrolled at the hospital, and few have the necessary zinc supplication. The expectation is that these studies would show little benefit, and indeed that is the case. There remains no studies with large sample sizes done as far as I know with HCQ+zinc given as a prophylactic measure immediately upon first exposure. EDIT: It's also worth mentioning that this isn't some crank theory about COVID. It is well known that zinc inhibits replication of RNA virus, giving the immune system more time to respond. I used to get colds 5-6 times a year, and the flu almost every year. When I learned about this effect zinc has, I started taking mega doses of zinc upon exposure, whether I'm close to someone known to be sick, flying through airports, or just caught in cold weather. I have not had cold or flu symptoms since I started this regimen about 2 years ago. Of course that is just an anecdote. There are, IIRC, observational studies showing this effect across larger populations.

Herodotus38 6y ago
Sure and when you have results of a RCT of zinc plus HCQ in prophylactic patients and publish it I will read it with great interest and if the data looks good I will be giving it to all my patients. If, however, you want to tell me that I should be using it now, because of a proposed mechanism and theoretical benefit, by using that logic why shouldn't I be giving my patients all other vitamins/supplements/medications that have been variously proposed and have their own believers? Aside from HCQ+zinc, what other cheap, low risk interventions do you propose be given and studied? (edit: additional thoughts) If you don't have any others, than I suggest you reevaluate why you think HCQ+zinc is unique (it's not). If you do, then you'll have a list of them and probably a list of reasons for each and a ranking of which are the most promising and which are the least. When you do this, it forces you to critically think about how best to rank these and how that ranking might change with evidence. Then it forces you to study the evidence. In an above post I mentioned that I did give HCQ to patients in the hospital back in March when it was the only thing that had ANY evidence (and the evidence was poor, but it was all they had). It made no difference, and it may have caused some deaths due to QTc prolongation (personally I believe it is very safe and I've taken it for malarial prophylaxis before). edit: (I removed a snarky line, apologies)
- garmaine 6y ago
  You are reading way, way too much into what I actually said. This is obviously a political issue for you and I have no desire to engage any further. Good day, sir.
  - Herodotus38 6y ago
    Apologies if I did. There are a large number of people who believe that the reason we don't use HCQ is due to a conspiracy. You may have just wanted to point out that the combination has never been used.
    - garmaine 6y ago
      That’s it. Cheers.
ImprovedSilence 6y ago
(pre-covid) I had an older co-worker that told me he doesn't regularly supplement w. vitamins, but as soon as he feels himself coming down with something, he takes some zinc, and said he could usually kick most colds before they really got a hold. I'd never heard of that before, and would always try vitamin C or whatever. I've tried zinc once, (again, pre covid days), and I guess I kicked whatever I was about to get. Would it have made a difference, who knows?
- garmaine 6y ago
  It would. At least with colds, both the theory is pretty clear and there’s mounting experimental evidence. Zinc is pretty much a common cold cure, if you take it early enough and have a decent immune system to start with.

Herodotus38 6y ago

Sure and when you have results of a RCT of zinc plus HCQ in prophylactic patients and publish it I will read it with great interest and if the data looks good I will be giving it to all my patients. If, however, you want to tell me that I should be using it now, because of a proposed mechanism and theoretical benefit, by using that logic why shouldn't I be giving my patients all other vitamins/supplements/medications that have been variously proposed and have their own believers? Aside from HCQ+zinc, what other cheap, low risk interventions do you propose be given and studied? (edit: additional thoughts) If you don't have any others, than I suggest you reevaluate why you think HCQ+zinc is unique (it's not). If you do, then you'll have a list of them and probably a list of reasons for each and a ranking of which are the most promising and which are the least. When you do this, it forces you to critically think about how best to rank these and how that ranking might change with evidence. Then it forces you to study the evidence. In an above post I mentioned that I did give HCQ to patients in the hospital back in March when it was the only thing that had ANY evidence (and the evidence was poor, but it was all they had). It made no difference, and it may have caused some deaths due to QTc prolongation (personally I believe it is very safe and I've taken it for malarial prophylaxis before). edit: (I removed a snarky line, apologies)

garmaine 6y ago
You are reading way, way too much into what I actually said. This is obviously a political issue for you and I have no desire to engage any further. Good day, sir.
- Herodotus38 6y ago
  Apologies if I did. There are a large number of people who believe that the reason we don't use HCQ is due to a conspiracy. You may have just wanted to point out that the combination has never been used.
  - garmaine 6y ago
    That’s it. Cheers.

ImprovedSilence 6y ago

(pre-covid) I had an older co-worker that told me he doesn't regularly supplement w. vitamins, but as soon as he feels himself coming down with something, he takes some zinc, and said he could usually kick most colds before they really got a hold. I'd never heard of that before, and would always try vitamin C or whatever. I've tried zinc once, (again, pre covid days), and I guess I kicked whatever I was about to get. Would it have made a difference, who knows?

garmaine 6y ago
It would. At least with colds, both the theory is pretty clear and there’s mounting experimental evidence. Zinc is pretty much a common cold cure, if you take it early enough and have a decent immune system to start with.