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Problem with this is that facial recognition is not perfect. It's no better than fnger printing which often leads to unjust arrests. There is no replacement for

Problem with this is that facial recognition is not perfect. It's no better than fnger printing which often leads to unjust arrests. There is no replacement for detective work and the government shouldn't be lazy to exclude it. The best it can do is narrow down suspects.

nerdponx 6y ago
Is it no better than finger printing in terms of accuracy?That would be an interesting study. Also, it's much easier to get people's photos than fingerprints.
srean 6y ago
I was under the impression that good quality fingerprints are lot more reliable. Could you point me to some resources that show how unreliable fingerprints are, I would learn something new. EDIT: Nevermind there is an active HN thread on just that
fpgaminer 6y ago
That's been my feeling. Last I looked I recall public SOTA in facial recognition being something like an error every 1 in 1000 cases. Assuming that a private corporation's efforts are somehow 100x better that still gives you 3,000 suspects in America for any given photo. (And all those people are likely to look very, very similar.) Hell, Apple's FaceID makes a mistake every million faces, and that system is both professional and has an order of magnitude more data to work with from the FaceID scanner. Clearview is just using blurry photographs.
- DangerousPie 6y ago
  Why is that a problem? This is just the first step to generate a set of possible matches, there will always be further steps to narrow it down further.
Youden 6y ago
> Problem with this is that facial recognition is not perfect. Why is that a problem? Are there any investigative tools that are perfect or is there a reason why facial recognition should be held to a higher standard? > It's no better than fnger printing which often leads to unjust arrests. You need to be more specific. Why is it no better? Has facial recognition been demonstrated to lead to more unjust arrests than other investigative methods? > There is no replacement for detective work and the government shouldn't be lazy to exclude it. Who's saying that facial recognition is a replacement for detective work? It's just another investigative method, like looking up a license plate or asking people at the crime scene what they saw. > The best it can do is narrow down suspects. It can also help find suspects when you don't have any other leads. Why isn't that good enough?
- jackson1442 6y ago
  The problems come from when it is hailed as perfect and arrests are made solely on a facial recognition result[0]. Facial recognition has also time and time again proven to be racially biased[1][2]. Not to mention how easy it is to create a surveillance state with facial recognition[3]. [0] https://threatpost.com/lawsuit-claims-flawed-facial-recognition-led-to-mans-wrongful-arrest/162663/ https://threatpost.com/lawsuit-claims-flawed-facial-recognit... [1] https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/19/tech/facial-recognition-study-racial-bias/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/19/tech/facial-recognition-study... [2] http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2020/racial-discrimination-in-face-recognition-technology/ http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2020/racial-discrimination... [3] https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/dec/9/social-credit-system-china-mass-surveillance-tool-/ https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/dec/9/social-credi...
  - Master_Odin 6y ago
    At least in this instance, the racial biases of facial recognition will not be a problem for the overwhelming white mob.
  - DangerousPie 6y ago
    Nobody is suggesting arresting anyone solely based on facial recognition.
karmasimida 6y ago
> Problem with this is that facial recognition is not perfect I don't think it is the case. Facial recognition can drastically speed up the process of nailing down suspects, accompanying with other information sources. I don't really see facial recognition as the sole reason to be worried here. Information collection and sharing is already ubiquitous, that is what leads to all these.
cstejerean 6y ago
It doesn’t need to be perfect though. People facial recognition isn’t perfect either. When they post some mugshot and ask the public for tips I’m sure some tips come in for people who look like the suspect but aren’t. Proper police work should be able to rule out the false positives quickly. The problem only happens if law enforcement believes that the matches are somehow infallible and refuse to look for or believe in other evidence that would rule out a suspect.
viktorcode 6y ago
Cases of mistaken identity lead to unjustified arrests. There are lot of such cases when human police officers are using their own senses to identify someone or to correctly read a situation. Technology in this regard adds a couple of eyes to the force.

nerdponx 6y ago

Is it no better than finger printing in terms of accuracy?That would be an interesting study. Also, it's much easier to get people's photos than fingerprints.

srean 6y ago

I was under the impression that good quality fingerprints are lot more reliable. Could you point me to some resources that show how unreliable fingerprints are, I would learn something new. EDIT: Nevermind there is an active HN thread on just that

fpgaminer 6y ago

That's been my feeling. Last I looked I recall public SOTA in facial recognition being something like an error every 1 in 1000 cases. Assuming that a private corporation's efforts are somehow 100x better that still gives you 3,000 suspects in America for any given photo. (And all those people are likely to look very, very similar.) Hell, Apple's FaceID makes a mistake every million faces, and that system is both professional and has an order of magnitude more data to work with from the FaceID scanner. Clearview is just using blurry photographs.

DangerousPie 6y ago
Why is that a problem? This is just the first step to generate a set of possible matches, there will always be further steps to narrow it down further.

Youden 6y ago

> Problem with this is that facial recognition is not perfect. Why is that a problem? Are there any investigative tools that are perfect or is there a reason why facial recognition should be held to a higher standard? > It's no better than fnger printing which often leads to unjust arrests. You need to be more specific. Why is it no better? Has facial recognition been demonstrated to lead to more unjust arrests than other investigative methods? > There is no replacement for detective work and the government shouldn't be lazy to exclude it. Who's saying that facial recognition is a replacement for detective work? It's just another investigative method, like looking up a license plate or asking people at the crime scene what they saw. > The best it can do is narrow down suspects. It can also help find suspects when you don't have any other leads. Why isn't that good enough?

jackson1442 6y ago
The problems come from when it is hailed as perfect and arrests are made solely on a facial recognition result[0]. Facial recognition has also time and time again proven to be racially biased[1][2]. Not to mention how easy it is to create a surveillance state with facial recognition[3]. [0] https://threatpost.com/lawsuit-claims-flawed-facial-recognition-led-to-mans-wrongful-arrest/162663/ https://threatpost.com/lawsuit-claims-flawed-facial-recognit... [1] https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/19/tech/facial-recognition-study-racial-bias/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/19/tech/facial-recognition-study... [2] http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2020/racial-discrimination-in-face-recognition-technology/ http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2020/racial-discrimination... [3] https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/dec/9/social-credit-system-china-mass-surveillance-tool-/ https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/dec/9/social-credi...
- Master_Odin 6y ago
  At least in this instance, the racial biases of facial recognition will not be a problem for the overwhelming white mob.
- DangerousPie 6y ago
  Nobody is suggesting arresting anyone solely based on facial recognition.

karmasimida 6y ago

> Problem with this is that facial recognition is not perfect I don't think it is the case. Facial recognition can drastically speed up the process of nailing down suspects, accompanying with other information sources. I don't really see facial recognition as the sole reason to be worried here. Information collection and sharing is already ubiquitous, that is what leads to all these.

cstejerean 6y ago

It doesn’t need to be perfect though. People facial recognition isn’t perfect either. When they post some mugshot and ask the public for tips I’m sure some tips come in for people who look like the suspect but aren’t. Proper police work should be able to rule out the false positives quickly. The problem only happens if law enforcement believes that the matches are somehow infallible and refuse to look for or believe in other evidence that would rule out a suspect.

viktorcode 6y ago

Cases of mistaken identity lead to unjustified arrests. There are lot of such cases when human police officers are using their own senses to identify someone or to correctly read a situation. Technology in this regard adds a couple of eyes to the force.