6 ms·

I see a pretty big difference between protests against police violence and protests against an election result.

acdha 6y ago
There’s also a huge difference between people standing in the street shouting that they don’t like you and breaking down the doors to a restricted federal building after saying they were going to kill you and/or shut down a civic proceeding.
throwaway201103 6y ago
There police protests included riots, arson, looting, and murders. Harris didn't condemn this until months later when specifically pressed on the point. Just as Trump has always condemned violence when specifically asked.
odessacubbage 6y ago
yes, far more people died during the former. the ethical double standard you are creating exists in your mind and in your mind only. when people see violence excused and ignored for months on end, it becomes legitimized as a tactic in their playbook as well. this is the current sickness in our discourse that we have to reckon with and trying to play 'most righteous cause' is the furthest thing from a solution.
- throw0101a 6y ago
  Supposedly more cops died in one day of (presumably Thin Blue Line supporting) riots at the US Capital than did many months of the so-called "anti-cop" demonstrations. Perhaps if the police cleared out the MAGA folks as enthusiastically as they did the peaceful demonstrators for Trump's church photo-op, then a lot of this could be avoided. And the goal of the BLM demonstration was not violence, whereas that was the goal of at least some (if not many) of the MAGA folks. Quite a few folks walking around with zip ties and more than one noose as well. Going back to July 27, 2020, Trump tweeted: > Anarchists, Agitators or Protestors who vandalize or damage our Federal Courthouse in Portland, or any Federal Buildings in any of our Cities or States, will be prosecuted under our recently re-enacted Statues & Monuments Act. MINIMUM TEN YEARS IN PRISON. Don’t do it! @DHSgov * https://www.cbs17.com/news/national-news/trump-tweet-threatening-prison-time-for-those-who-protest-at-federal-buildings-resurfaces-amid-capitol-hill-chaos/ https://www.cbs17.com/news/national-news/trump-tweet-threate... * https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1287877621380837378 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/12878776213808373...
- jjeaff 6y ago
  No police were killed by BLM protestors. And considering the vastly larger amount of protests with BLM (more than 9000 protests), it's a wonder more violence didn't happen. Had every BLM protest been as violent and unhinged as the capitol protests, we would have had thousands of deaths.
  - Amezarak 6y ago
    > No police were killed by BLM protestors. This is not true. Here is one example of a retired St. Louis Police captain/current (at the time) police chief of Moline Acres being killed. https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/retired-police-captain-shot-to-death-at-st-louis-pawn-shop-in-slaying-caught-on/article_d482138c-0224-5393-bd87-9898bebb3fd1.html https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/retired... There are other examples as well. > Had every BLM protest been as violent and unhinged as the capitol protests, Aside from the single police officer, all the deaths seem to have been protestors. At least two were killed by police - one was shot by the police, and the other was pushed off a balcony. It is the case that between two and three dozen people were killed during the BLM protests and associated actions like the autonomous zone, with nearly all of them, judging by the articles I have found, being victims of the protestors rather than protestors themselves.
    - jjeaff 6y ago
      Middle of the night. What makes you think that murder was BLM related? Also, not to diminish the death. But he was not a police officer. He was retired and doing security work for a friend.
  - BlueTemplar 6y ago
    It's also a wonder that more people haven't been killed in the capitol protests.
- caconym_ 6y ago
  IIRC there are 25 deaths attributed to the "BLM protests". That includes all of them, across the country, likely a number of events in the high hundreds or low thousands. AFAIK that number does not include any police deaths, though there were a couple attributed to right-wing extremists in the same period. In a single medium-sized event, Wednesday's riot got 5 people killed. One of them was a policeman, and at least three of them were due to violence. So in terms of fatalities per participant-day, Wednesday's event was probably at least two orders of magnitude more violent than the "BLM protests" taken as a whole. I think that's a significant difference, and one that exposes this sort of whataboutism as false equivalency (in addition to the other issues with whataboutism).
  - spaginal 6y ago
    BLM is responsible for many police killings, including one incident in Dallas in 2016 where 5 police officers were murdered in one event. I know this country has memory holed the negative actions of BLM, but they have a lot of law enforcement blood on their hands.
    - caconym_ 6y ago
      Let me help you understand my comment. I put “BLM protests” in quotes because I am specifically talking about the protests last summer that resulted from several high-profile police brutality incidents with black victims. I don’t really consider any particular group labeling itself “BLM” to speak for that particular movement, hence the quotes. In a similar vein, I’m not blaming the people who stormed the Capitol on Wednesday for previous right-wing attacks, including on LEOs e.g. the boog boi murders earlier last year.
      - spaginal 6y ago
        The police murders were committed under the BLM protests. Consequently, the media mislabeling of the reign of terror campaign this summer doesn’t legitimize destroying communities because a few people were pissed off and corporations attempted to add an air of legitimacy to it. I watched a bunch of people chant at a door on Wednesday, a couple windows were broken, a guy in viking shit flexed on a chair, an unarmed woman was shot climbing through a window, and my feed is filled with hyperbolic morons screaming sedition and traitors. I’m over it.

There’s also a huge difference between people standing in the street shouting that they don’t like you and breaking down the doors to a restricted federal building after saying they were going to kill you and/or shut down a civic proceeding.

throwaway201103 6y ago

There police protests included riots, arson, looting, and murders. Harris didn't condemn this until months later when specifically pressed on the point. Just as Trump has always condemned violence when specifically asked.

odessacubbage 6y ago

yes, far more people died during the former. the ethical double standard you are creating exists in your mind and in your mind only. when people see violence excused and ignored for months on end, it becomes legitimized as a tactic in their playbook as well. this is the current sickness in our discourse that we have to reckon with and trying to play 'most righteous cause' is the furthest thing from a solution.

throw0101a 6y ago
Supposedly more cops died in one day of (presumably Thin Blue Line supporting) riots at the US Capital than did many months of the so-called "anti-cop" demonstrations. Perhaps if the police cleared out the MAGA folks as enthusiastically as they did the peaceful demonstrators for Trump's church photo-op, then a lot of this could be avoided. And the goal of the BLM demonstration was not violence, whereas that was the goal of at least some (if not many) of the MAGA folks. Quite a few folks walking around with zip ties and more than one noose as well. Going back to July 27, 2020, Trump tweeted: > Anarchists, Agitators or Protestors who vandalize or damage our Federal Courthouse in Portland, or any Federal Buildings in any of our Cities or States, will be prosecuted under our recently re-enacted Statues & Monuments Act. MINIMUM TEN YEARS IN PRISON. Don’t do it! @DHSgov * https://www.cbs17.com/news/national-news/trump-tweet-threatening-prison-time-for-those-who-protest-at-federal-buildings-resurfaces-amid-capitol-hill-chaos/ https://www.cbs17.com/news/national-news/trump-tweet-threate... * https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1287877621380837378 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/12878776213808373...
jjeaff 6y ago
No police were killed by BLM protestors. And considering the vastly larger amount of protests with BLM (more than 9000 protests), it's a wonder more violence didn't happen. Had every BLM protest been as violent and unhinged as the capitol protests, we would have had thousands of deaths.
- Amezarak 6y ago
  > No police were killed by BLM protestors. This is not true. Here is one example of a retired St. Louis Police captain/current (at the time) police chief of Moline Acres being killed. https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/retired-police-captain-shot-to-death-at-st-louis-pawn-shop-in-slaying-caught-on/article_d482138c-0224-5393-bd87-9898bebb3fd1.html https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/retired... There are other examples as well. > Had every BLM protest been as violent and unhinged as the capitol protests, Aside from the single police officer, all the deaths seem to have been protestors. At least two were killed by police - one was shot by the police, and the other was pushed off a balcony. It is the case that between two and three dozen people were killed during the BLM protests and associated actions like the autonomous zone, with nearly all of them, judging by the articles I have found, being victims of the protestors rather than protestors themselves.
  - jjeaff 6y ago
    Middle of the night. What makes you think that murder was BLM related? Also, not to diminish the death. But he was not a police officer. He was retired and doing security work for a friend.
- BlueTemplar 6y ago
  It's also a wonder that more people haven't been killed in the capitol protests.
caconym_ 6y ago
IIRC there are 25 deaths attributed to the "BLM protests". That includes all of them, across the country, likely a number of events in the high hundreds or low thousands. AFAIK that number does not include any police deaths, though there were a couple attributed to right-wing extremists in the same period. In a single medium-sized event, Wednesday's riot got 5 people killed. One of them was a policeman, and at least three of them were due to violence. So in terms of fatalities per participant-day, Wednesday's event was probably at least two orders of magnitude more violent than the "BLM protests" taken as a whole. I think that's a significant difference, and one that exposes this sort of whataboutism as false equivalency (in addition to the other issues with whataboutism).
- spaginal 6y ago
  BLM is responsible for many police killings, including one incident in Dallas in 2016 where 5 police officers were murdered in one event. I know this country has memory holed the negative actions of BLM, but they have a lot of law enforcement blood on their hands.
  - caconym_ 6y ago
    Let me help you understand my comment. I put “BLM protests” in quotes because I am specifically talking about the protests last summer that resulted from several high-profile police brutality incidents with black victims. I don’t really consider any particular group labeling itself “BLM” to speak for that particular movement, hence the quotes. In a similar vein, I’m not blaming the people who stormed the Capitol on Wednesday for previous right-wing attacks, including on LEOs e.g. the boog boi murders earlier last year.
    - spaginal 6y ago
      The police murders were committed under the BLM protests. Consequently, the media mislabeling of the reign of terror campaign this summer doesn’t legitimize destroying communities because a few people were pissed off and corporations attempted to add an air of legitimacy to it. I watched a bunch of people chant at a door on Wednesday, a couple windows were broken, a guy in viking shit flexed on a chair, an unarmed woman was shot climbing through a window, and my feed is filled with hyperbolic morons screaming sedition and traitors. I’m over it.