5 ms·

At what point do these massive corporations effectively become a government? They govern what you can say, think and buy.

Grimm1 6y ago
I don't want businesses to be forced to do business with people it doesn't want to there are many avenues to address grievances with that already. For instance in this case, the Trump admin can sue and have the concern addressed in court. No business in the world can currently stand up to a government that wants to curtail it by the way.
- Acrobatic_Road 6y ago
  This is not just "we don't want to do business with you". This is "we don't you want to have a platform anywhere". I start caring when several tech monopolies co-ordinate to take down alternative platforms like parler.
  - zepto 6y ago
    Parler can be sideloaded on Android.
    - Acrobatic_Road 6y ago
      What happens when Amazon drops them from AWS?
      - zepto 6y ago
        AWS is not the only host. I’m sure China or Russia would be happy to provide service.
      - Grimm1 6y ago
        Buy some servers and set it up yourself, switch to digital ocean, find more classic service providers. What you thought AWS was the only way to host shitty websites?
- zadokshi 6y ago
  > "I don't want businesses to be forced to do business with people it doesn't want to " But we are not talking about forcing general businesses doing business with general people. We are taking about allowing publicly elected representatives of the people having a voice on the platform that the majority of the country uses for communication. You are generalising, then building your argument on the generalisation.
  - zepto 6y ago
    The generalization is a good principle to uphold, wouldn’t you say? Should newspapers be forced to publish the presidents tweets for those who are not on Twitter?
  - Grimm1 6y ago
    So? Hold a press conference or something. These platforms aren't even close to the only communication tool they can use why should one tool be forced to suffer them. My life is certainly better without seeing Trump's asinine and sometimes dangerous commentary on Twitter if I want it I'll go check my NewsNation app. This right here is part of the problem. It's the government they can post commentary on a us.gov twitter clone or blog or whatever. I don't even agree that outside of government funds we should provide special treatment for our elected officials. We certainly have the resources to establish any communication tool they could possibly conceive of outside of private business.
tomatotomato37 6y ago
When they start getting serious anti-trust lawsuits brought against them seems a good point. I feel like that's something that's been forgetten I this situation, we aren't talking about normal companies, we are talking about companies that are so freaking big that the government has to go and actively prune them to prevent them from crippling their own markets.
neogodless 6y ago
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/government https://www.dictionary.com/browse/government > the political direction and control exercised over the actions of the members, citizens, or inhabitants of communities, societies, and states; direction of the affairs of a state, community, etc.; political administration > the form or system of rule by which a state, community, etc., is governed Social media corporations influence what they'll allow to be said through their platform, and by means of their algorithms and the effects it has on your feeds and advertisements, they influence what you think and buy. They do not rule your actions. They do not control laws, enforcement, government spending and military command. Certainly at the size and wealth of many corporations, they do heavily influence legislation though, and that certainly is worth examining. But individuals have a choice whether or not to use social media. I'm just one person: I use Instagram but only follow a few people that post photos I like (I'll unfollow if a lot of posts diverge from photography), I avoid Facebook feeds completely and mostly avoid Twitter although the past few days have been an exception - I only visit one or two tech-related subreddits. This is just right now at a moment in time. Five years ago I would've said I use Facebook daily and Twitter extremely rarely and what is Reddit, and I've posted a few photos on Instagram but it doesn't really interest me. It's always a shifting landscape. (I once had a Google+ profile...)
karaterobot 6y ago
When other governments recognize you as a government, then whatever else is true about you, you are a government. Usually this is because you have a military with certain capabilities, but I guess in this new century there could be other options, like money or information.
dragonwriter 6y ago
> At what point do these massive corporations effectively become a government? When they exercise a monopoly on the legitimate use of force within some geographic domain. > They govern what you can say, think and buy. No, they don't. They govern what can be published and sold on their platforms, which aren't the exclusive venues for sale or publishing.

Grimm1 6y ago

I don't want businesses to be forced to do business with people it doesn't want to there are many avenues to address grievances with that already. For instance in this case, the Trump admin can sue and have the concern addressed in court. No business in the world can currently stand up to a government that wants to curtail it by the way.

Acrobatic_Road 6y ago
This is not just "we don't want to do business with you". This is "we don't you want to have a platform anywhere". I start caring when several tech monopolies co-ordinate to take down alternative platforms like parler.
- zepto 6y ago
  Parler can be sideloaded on Android.
  - Acrobatic_Road 6y ago
    What happens when Amazon drops them from AWS?
    - zepto 6y ago
      AWS is not the only host. I’m sure China or Russia would be happy to provide service.
    - Grimm1 6y ago
      Buy some servers and set it up yourself, switch to digital ocean, find more classic service providers. What you thought AWS was the only way to host shitty websites?
zadokshi 6y ago
> "I don't want businesses to be forced to do business with people it doesn't want to " But we are not talking about forcing general businesses doing business with general people. We are taking about allowing publicly elected representatives of the people having a voice on the platform that the majority of the country uses for communication. You are generalising, then building your argument on the generalisation.
- zepto 6y ago
  The generalization is a good principle to uphold, wouldn’t you say? Should newspapers be forced to publish the presidents tweets for those who are not on Twitter?
- Grimm1 6y ago
  So? Hold a press conference or something. These platforms aren't even close to the only communication tool they can use why should one tool be forced to suffer them. My life is certainly better without seeing Trump's asinine and sometimes dangerous commentary on Twitter if I want it I'll go check my NewsNation app. This right here is part of the problem. It's the government they can post commentary on a us.gov twitter clone or blog or whatever. I don't even agree that outside of government funds we should provide special treatment for our elected officials. We certainly have the resources to establish any communication tool they could possibly conceive of outside of private business.

tomatotomato37 6y ago

When they start getting serious anti-trust lawsuits brought against them seems a good point. I feel like that's something that's been forgetten I this situation, we aren't talking about normal companies, we are talking about companies that are so freaking big that the government has to go and actively prune them to prevent them from crippling their own markets.

neogodless 6y ago

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/government https://www.dictionary.com/browse/government > the political direction and control exercised over the actions of the members, citizens, or inhabitants of communities, societies, and states; direction of the affairs of a state, community, etc.; political administration > the form or system of rule by which a state, community, etc., is governed Social media corporations influence what they'll allow to be said through their platform, and by means of their algorithms and the effects it has on your feeds and advertisements, they influence what you think and buy. They do not rule your actions. They do not control laws, enforcement, government spending and military command. Certainly at the size and wealth of many corporations, they do heavily influence legislation though, and that certainly is worth examining. But individuals have a choice whether or not to use social media. I'm just one person: I use Instagram but only follow a few people that post photos I like (I'll unfollow if a lot of posts diverge from photography), I avoid Facebook feeds completely and mostly avoid Twitter although the past few days have been an exception - I only visit one or two tech-related subreddits. This is just right now at a moment in time. Five years ago I would've said I use Facebook daily and Twitter extremely rarely and what is Reddit, and I've posted a few photos on Instagram but it doesn't really interest me. It's always a shifting landscape. (I once had a Google+ profile...)

karaterobot 6y ago

When other governments recognize you as a government, then whatever else is true about you, you are a government. Usually this is because you have a military with certain capabilities, but I guess in this new century there could be other options, like money or information.

dragonwriter 6y ago

> At what point do these massive corporations effectively become a government? When they exercise a monopoly on the legitimate use of force within some geographic domain. > They govern what you can say, think and buy. No, they don't. They govern what can be published and sold on their platforms, which aren't the exclusive venues for sale or publishing.