8 ms·

“Start your own Twitter then!” ... they do. “Google bans Parler, conservative Twitter. Apple gives them 24 hour notice to moderate more speech or be banned.”

bebopcowboy 6y ago
They are trying to get Parler kicked off of AWS too. Anyone who uses “start your own X” is a disingenuous moron.
courtf 6y ago
That's funny, it seems they were perfectly happy to try starting their own country a couple days ago.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- nostromo 6y ago
  Autonomous zones for me but not for thee. Listen, I’m center left and oppose all this craziness. But the tech giants banning these accounts is counterproductive. Violence will increase not decrease as extremists are pushed out of the public square and into echo chambers and non-public Signal groups. “A riot is the language of the unheard” remember?
  - TulliusCicero 6y ago
    So in the interest of balance, conservative leaning apps can get away with doing whatever they want now? If left leaning apps permit the kind of violent talk that Parler does, by all means, ban those too.
    - zadokshi 6y ago
      So we are banning twitter then as well?
      - TulliusCicero 6y ago
        No. Twitter actually tries. It's no secret that Parler's ethos is largely anti-moderation, that was basically their whole brand and messaging, after all.
        jkepler 6y ago
        But if one reads Parker's terms of service (TOS), they reserve the right to moderate illegal content, as well as claim unlimited global usage of any content uploaded to their platform. Thus while their ethos was largely anti-moderation, their TOS seems to put responsibility for their platform in their hands---at least in my non-lawyer eyes.
        TulliusCicero 6y ago
        Right, they have a bare minimum policy, but the Android and iOS app stores have apparently higher standards for moderation that they require apps to abide by. Which completely makes sense -- when you get an app from an app store, its content partially reflects on the store itself.
  - timmytokyo 6y ago
    >Violence will increase not decrease as extremists are pushed out of the public square and into echo chambers and non-public Signal groups. I see this claim a lot, but is it true? On the one hand, some people will move into harder to find echo chambers. On the other, fewer people will be exposed to extremist content in the first place. Both factors are in play. It isn't clear which one "wins".
    - xnx 6y ago
      It's definitely not obvious that appeasement leads to better outcomes.
  - courtf 6y ago
    "an insurrection is the language of the unheard" Hmm doesn't have quite the same ring. Try this one: "We shall fight them on the beaches... we shall never surrender" Or would you prefer appeasement?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
cstejerean 6y ago
Start your own Google then?
- keyme 6y ago
  Funny. I've seen talk of making Cloudflare ban thedonald.win (the reddit clone of trump supporters). What's next? Make your own routers? Lay your own cables?
  - babelfish 6y ago
    Better yet, stop platforming fascists!
  - TulliusCicero 6y ago
    Sure. That's the market for ya. The invisible hand can still get stuff done. If you hit a cog that's a government-granted monopoly, then I'd sympathize with that. Otherwise, I have zero sympathy for supposed market proponents who want the government to step in as long as it's in their favor. Live by the sword, die by the sword.
    - cstejerean 6y ago
      This. I fail to see how someone can be ok with “we don’t need environmental regulations, the free market will sort it out” but then won’t accept that the same markets may choose to not allow fascist propaganda. The free market has spoken, these companies don’t want to be associated with a movement to overthrow elections and undermine democracy.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - gulag4nerds 6y ago
    Just start your own country...oh wait.
- nostromo 6y ago
  How to start a conservative social media app in 2024: 1. Create a bank for your financial interests 2. Mine aluminum for your phone manufacturing factory
MisterBastahrd 6y ago
If you can't communicate without violent insurrectionist rhetoric, then you better do it in private. Platforms have valid civil liability concerns with or without Section 230. Nobody banned "conservative twitter." They banned the people who have been whipping up the gullible and stupid with unfounded conspiracy theories and outright lies. Alternate realities are bad but tolerated until they lead to violence. Meghan McCain is still on twitter. Her husband, a Federalist founder, is still on twitter. There are plenty of conservatives who are still there. Pretending that they banned a political philosophy is hilariously disingenuous.
- wwmjdo 6y ago
  Fascist autocracy is the new language of the unheard for the big brains on HN.
Pils 6y ago
> Google bans Parler, conservative Twitter Shows up for me: https://www.google.com/search?q=parler https://www.google.com/search?q=parler If they didn't want to get banned from the app stores, they should've at least tried to follow the TOS. There is a subreddit dedicated to cataloguing all the death threats on the app, many of which are still up today: https://www.reddit.com/r/ParlerWatch/top/?t=month https://www.reddit.com/r/ParlerWatch/top/?t=month. Reddit, Facebook and Twitter have entire content moderation teams for this sorta thing. Why should there be a double standard for conservative social media sites?
- zadokshi 6y ago
  The discussion is not about if a 'free speech app' can have a website. The discussion is about if a 'free speech app' can have an app.
  - zepto 6y ago
    Is there a difference between a ‘free speech app’ and a ‘death threat app’?
    - qeternity 6y ago
      Well for one, death threats are illegal and not protected speech under the 1A.
  - mbreese 6y ago
    It’s also not even that. The discussion is if someone has to distribute a “free speech app”. The issue is a little more complex for Apple if/when they ban Parler, as you can’t (easily) side load apps on iOS. But Google only banned them from the Google Play store, thus limiting their distribution. You can still use the app, and side load to install. (I think this makes Android’s position a little more tenable here...) They still have their app and website. And you can still get to their website from a phone.
    - zadokshi 6y ago
LeoPanthera 6y ago
This isn't wrong, but it is misleading. Google banned Parler's app, from their own app store. At the very least, Android devices allow different app stores. But the whole thing is irrelevant anyway, because neither Google nor Apple filter web pages you can view in their respective web browsers, and Parlor, or anyone, can just make a normal website. Apple's (and Google's, as far as I know) complaint is not "right wing politics is immoral" - although if it was, I'd be OK with that. Their complaint is simply "you're not moderating your users as required by our app store rules", and as a user, I'm fully on Apple's side here.
TulliusCicero 6y ago
That's the market at work, yes. Funny how quickly supposed free market advocates turn against it when it doesn't do what they want. "No, you were supposed to hurt the other side, not us!!"
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
mech422 6y ago
There's always IRC and web forums. You can even use a smartphone based IRC client, if you really have to. If you want to use Google/Apple/AWS services, you play by their rules. Plenty of stories about "XX closed our company account and now we can't do business" on HN.
intended 6y ago
Yes, start your own twitter is a cop out because no one is willing to accept that they are listening to crazy things. Plus this IS the free market solution that American speech norms are ok with. Businesses can choose who they give their services to. If google doesn't surface results that's their choice. Drive business to duck duck go and Bing. VOAT, Parler, are not havens of conservative/ neo-liberal, small government economic discussion. If you want that go to an actual economics forum, or get a economist/WSJ/BB subscription. They aren't getting removed because they have "conservative" thought. They're getting removed because people sharing death threats, Nazi apologia, holocaust denial and organizing to stop other people from existing is generally handled by anti terror teams. While saying this is usually unpopular on boards with a largely American user base - in many other countries this wouldn't even be a question. Additional note - many people who read these debates have never gone to those sites, and will be swayed by people who come up here and say they visit those sites. Be wary of false reports and equivalencies. I've recently condemned the actions of the_donald, and linked to evidence of their efforts to subvert r/all. The response I received was that organized attempts to subvert reddit, and brigade the front page are the equivalent of other subs organically having their content rise to the front page.
- danielscrubs 6y ago
  Isn’t it good that they are spewing death threats to anonymous users on easily trackable apps so the police can lock them up before they do anything worse? This is your neighbors, the shallow fixes won’t help. You need another culture who... trust doctors and democracy for a start and it needs to be pushed in education. Something is failing in US.
  - intended 6y ago
    Yup. That said, It’s not just the US. Authoritarianism is on the rise around the world.
pkaye 6y ago
They violated their contracts to be on the app stores. Remember that TOS are so powerful that now you can be forced to go into arbitration instead of courts.

bebopcowboy 6y ago

They are trying to get Parler kicked off of AWS too. Anyone who uses “start your own X” is a disingenuous moron.

courtf 6y ago

That's funny, it seems they were perfectly happy to try starting their own country a couple days ago.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
nostromo 6y ago
Autonomous zones for me but not for thee. Listen, I’m center left and oppose all this craziness. But the tech giants banning these accounts is counterproductive. Violence will increase not decrease as extremists are pushed out of the public square and into echo chambers and non-public Signal groups. “A riot is the language of the unheard” remember?
- TulliusCicero 6y ago
  So in the interest of balance, conservative leaning apps can get away with doing whatever they want now? If left leaning apps permit the kind of violent talk that Parler does, by all means, ban those too.
  - zadokshi 6y ago
    So we are banning twitter then as well?
    - TulliusCicero 6y ago
      No. Twitter actually tries. It's no secret that Parler's ethos is largely anti-moderation, that was basically their whole brand and messaging, after all.
      - jkepler 6y ago
        But if one reads Parker's terms of service (TOS), they reserve the right to moderate illegal content, as well as claim unlimited global usage of any content uploaded to their platform. Thus while their ethos was largely anti-moderation, their TOS seems to put responsibility for their platform in their hands---at least in my non-lawyer eyes.
        TulliusCicero 6y ago
        Right, they have a bare minimum policy, but the Android and iOS app stores have apparently higher standards for moderation that they require apps to abide by. Which completely makes sense -- when you get an app from an app store, its content partially reflects on the store itself.
- timmytokyo 6y ago
  >Violence will increase not decrease as extremists are pushed out of the public square and into echo chambers and non-public Signal groups. I see this claim a lot, but is it true? On the one hand, some people will move into harder to find echo chambers. On the other, fewer people will be exposed to extremist content in the first place. Both factors are in play. It isn't clear which one "wins".
  - xnx 6y ago
    It's definitely not obvious that appeasement leads to better outcomes.
- courtf 6y ago
  "an insurrection is the language of the unheard" Hmm doesn't have quite the same ring. Try this one: "We shall fight them on the beaches... we shall never surrender" Or would you prefer appeasement?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

cstejerean 6y ago

Start your own Google then?

keyme 6y ago
Funny. I've seen talk of making Cloudflare ban thedonald.win (the reddit clone of trump supporters). What's next? Make your own routers? Lay your own cables?
- babelfish 6y ago
  Better yet, stop platforming fascists!
- TulliusCicero 6y ago
  Sure. That's the market for ya. The invisible hand can still get stuff done. If you hit a cog that's a government-granted monopoly, then I'd sympathize with that. Otherwise, I have zero sympathy for supposed market proponents who want the government to step in as long as it's in their favor. Live by the sword, die by the sword.
  - cstejerean 6y ago
    This. I fail to see how someone can be ok with “we don’t need environmental regulations, the free market will sort it out” but then won’t accept that the same markets may choose to not allow fascist propaganda. The free market has spoken, these companies don’t want to be associated with a movement to overthrow elections and undermine democracy.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- gulag4nerds 6y ago
  Just start your own country...oh wait.
nostromo 6y ago
How to start a conservative social media app in 2024: 1. Create a bank for your financial interests 2. Mine aluminum for your phone manufacturing factory

MisterBastahrd 6y ago

If you can't communicate without violent insurrectionist rhetoric, then you better do it in private. Platforms have valid civil liability concerns with or without Section 230. Nobody banned "conservative twitter." They banned the people who have been whipping up the gullible and stupid with unfounded conspiracy theories and outright lies. Alternate realities are bad but tolerated until they lead to violence. Meghan McCain is still on twitter. Her husband, a Federalist founder, is still on twitter. There are plenty of conservatives who are still there. Pretending that they banned a political philosophy is hilariously disingenuous.

wwmjdo 6y ago
Fascist autocracy is the new language of the unheard for the big brains on HN.

Pils 6y ago

> Google bans Parler, conservative Twitter Shows up for me: https://www.google.com/search?q=parler https://www.google.com/search?q=parler If they didn't want to get banned from the app stores, they should've at least tried to follow the TOS. There is a subreddit dedicated to cataloguing all the death threats on the app, many of which are still up today: https://www.reddit.com/r/ParlerWatch/top/?t=month https://www.reddit.com/r/ParlerWatch/top/?t=month. Reddit, Facebook and Twitter have entire content moderation teams for this sorta thing. Why should there be a double standard for conservative social media sites?

zadokshi 6y ago
The discussion is not about if a 'free speech app' can have a website. The discussion is about if a 'free speech app' can have an app.
- zepto 6y ago
  Is there a difference between a ‘free speech app’ and a ‘death threat app’?
  - qeternity 6y ago
    Well for one, death threats are illegal and not protected speech under the 1A.
- mbreese 6y ago
  It’s also not even that. The discussion is if someone has to distribute a “free speech app”. The issue is a little more complex for Apple if/when they ban Parler, as you can’t (easily) side load apps on iOS. But Google only banned them from the Google Play store, thus limiting their distribution. You can still use the app, and side load to install. (I think this makes Android’s position a little more tenable here...) They still have their app and website. And you can still get to their website from a phone.
  - zadokshi 6y ago

LeoPanthera 6y ago

This isn't wrong, but it is misleading. Google banned Parler's app, from their own app store. At the very least, Android devices allow different app stores. But the whole thing is irrelevant anyway, because neither Google nor Apple filter web pages you can view in their respective web browsers, and Parlor, or anyone, can just make a normal website. Apple's (and Google's, as far as I know) complaint is not "right wing politics is immoral" - although if it was, I'd be OK with that. Their complaint is simply "you're not moderating your users as required by our app store rules", and as a user, I'm fully on Apple's side here.

TulliusCicero 6y ago

That's the market at work, yes. Funny how quickly supposed free market advocates turn against it when it doesn't do what they want. "No, you were supposed to hurt the other side, not us!!"

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

mech422 6y ago

There's always IRC and web forums. You can even use a smartphone based IRC client, if you really have to. If you want to use Google/Apple/AWS services, you play by their rules. Plenty of stories about "XX closed our company account and now we can't do business" on HN.

intended 6y ago

Yes, start your own twitter is a cop out because no one is willing to accept that they are listening to crazy things. Plus this IS the free market solution that American speech norms are ok with. Businesses can choose who they give their services to. If google doesn't surface results that's their choice. Drive business to duck duck go and Bing. VOAT, Parler, are not havens of conservative/ neo-liberal, small government economic discussion. If you want that go to an actual economics forum, or get a economist/WSJ/BB subscription. They aren't getting removed because they have "conservative" thought. They're getting removed because people sharing death threats, Nazi apologia, holocaust denial and organizing to stop other people from existing is generally handled by anti terror teams. While saying this is usually unpopular on boards with a largely American user base - in many other countries this wouldn't even be a question. Additional note - many people who read these debates have never gone to those sites, and will be swayed by people who come up here and say they visit those sites. Be wary of false reports and equivalencies. I've recently condemned the actions of the_donald, and linked to evidence of their efforts to subvert r/all. The response I received was that organized attempts to subvert reddit, and brigade the front page are the equivalent of other subs organically having their content rise to the front page.

danielscrubs 6y ago
Isn’t it good that they are spewing death threats to anonymous users on easily trackable apps so the police can lock them up before they do anything worse? This is your neighbors, the shallow fixes won’t help. You need another culture who... trust doctors and democracy for a start and it needs to be pushed in education. Something is failing in US.
- intended 6y ago
  Yup. That said, It’s not just the US. Authoritarianism is on the rise around the world.

pkaye 6y ago

They violated their contracts to be on the app stores. Remember that TOS are so powerful that now you can be forced to go into arbitration instead of courts.