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We've seen what the capital looks like when leftists protest. The security was intentionally lax and the president intentionally restricted national guard respo

We've seen what the capital looks like when leftists protest. The security was intentionally lax and the president intentionally restricted national guard response. It was so easy because there were people inside helping them out. https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/ap-fact-check-trump-distorts-record-on-national-guard-in-dc/ https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/ap-fact-check-trum...

thakoppno 6y ago
> The Pentagon said Miller approved the request without speaking with the White House because he had gotten direction from the president days earlier to do whatever he deemed necessary with the Guard.
- tstrimple 6y ago
  Did you read everything or just try to cherry pick something to try to spread misinformation? "Army leaders say the delay in the movement of Guard troops to the Capitol was because the initial agreement largely limited those forces to checkpoints and Metro stations and *stipulated they would not go to the Capitol*. As a result, authorities had to get approval for the new mission, then call Guard members to the armory, brief them and get them their riot gear, and then send them to the Capitol."
  - dang 6y ago
    Would you please stop using HN for political and ideological battle? You've been doing it repeatedly lately and it's not what this site is for, regardless of which politics you're battling for or against. HN is for thoughtful, curious conversation on topics of intellectual interest. The sets of that and political flamewar are disjoint. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and use the site as intended, we'd appreciate it.
    - tstrimple 6y ago
      So me clearing up misinformation is a problem, but other using spreading information isn't? Isn't our unwillingness to challenge this misinformation exactly why we're dealing with violent seditionists right now? Did you somehow miss an attack on the US capitol largely due to rampant spread of misinformation?
      - dang 6y ago
        I get that it feels that way [1], but no, that's not it. You can correct misinformation without breaking the site guidelines. Plenty of HN users do that respectfully and patiently, without attacking anybody. Moreover your corrections will be more effective that way, so it's in your interest to do so. What you can't do is destroy this community by tossing bombs of snark, flamebait, name-calling, etc., at the side you consider wrong and bad. That is something completely different, and is what we warn or ban accounts for doing. [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=%22always%20feels%22%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...
beerandt 6y ago
They literally took over the Senate building for hours during the scotus confirmation, snuck in restricted areas to harass senators, took selfies in offices while refusing to leave, and tried to block hallways and elevators, all with the stated intention of intimidating senators into changing their votes. Zero resistance from the Police and only arrested the people who still refused to leave hours later.
- heurist 6y ago
  Nevermind the ziptie handcuffs and tasers
  - beerandt 6y ago
    Defensive tools for law abiding citizens unable to carry in a "gun-free" zone. It only show any sort of offensive ill intent to people who want it to show ill intent. Think it through logically: It proves adherence to the law, not intent to break it. Neither zipties or tasers are illegal, but in DC, concealed carry, or even having any personal gun is. If the intent was to forcibly take over the capital, or some sort of insurrection, it seems silly to worry about concealed carry laws while carrying out an open "rebellion". But even so, let's say you don't want to risk killing anyone with a gun. You still have a problem, because neither tasers nor zipties are an effective tool if you're going up against an armed federal police force and possibly hundreds of politicians and staffers. Tazers have maybe a few discharges without needing to be recharged. That's not gonna deter multiple people, let alone a crowd. Not even an individual for more than a few moments. Definitely not capital police officers with guns, who are trained to avoid and overcome being tazed, by actually being tazed. However, if you're a law abiding citizen protesting in DC, and you want to defend yourself against a potential attacker, a tazer is basically the only option you have. With the mayor's restrictions placed on the National Guard and police officers, it seems especially reasonable, given all the violence of the past year that police and politicians have failed to prevent, sometimes willingly. Since tazers only disable attackers temporarily, zipties make sense as a defensive tool, if you need to disable an attacker looking enough to get away, or between the time the tazer wears off and when the police arrive. Especially if you wind up in a situation where you are somehow confined in some space, trapped with your attacker. If people would at least try to perceive Wednesday with an open mind, it's easy to explain 99.9% as well intentioned citizens, peacefully marching. Even with the confrontations, it's easy to see how people could have unintentionally gotten caught up in an escalated situation. I get that not everyone was an innocent bystander. But, again, these people deserve the same benefit of the doubt that the left got when taking over the Senate building while admittedly trying to intimidate senators into changing their votes. Yet they were kneeled to in deference by the FBI, before being given unfettered access.

thakoppno 6y ago

> The Pentagon said Miller approved the request without speaking with the White House because he had gotten direction from the president days earlier to do whatever he deemed necessary with the Guard.

tstrimple 6y ago
Did you read everything or just try to cherry pick something to try to spread misinformation? "Army leaders say the delay in the movement of Guard troops to the Capitol was because the initial agreement largely limited those forces to checkpoints and Metro stations and *stipulated they would not go to the Capitol*. As a result, authorities had to get approval for the new mission, then call Guard members to the armory, brief them and get them their riot gear, and then send them to the Capitol."
- dang 6y ago
  Would you please stop using HN for political and ideological battle? You've been doing it repeatedly lately and it's not what this site is for, regardless of which politics you're battling for or against. HN is for thoughtful, curious conversation on topics of intellectual interest. The sets of that and political flamewar are disjoint. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and use the site as intended, we'd appreciate it.
  - tstrimple 6y ago
    So me clearing up misinformation is a problem, but other using spreading information isn't? Isn't our unwillingness to challenge this misinformation exactly why we're dealing with violent seditionists right now? Did you somehow miss an attack on the US capitol largely due to rampant spread of misinformation?
    - dang 6y ago
      I get that it feels that way [1], but no, that's not it. You can correct misinformation without breaking the site guidelines. Plenty of HN users do that respectfully and patiently, without attacking anybody. Moreover your corrections will be more effective that way, so it's in your interest to do so. What you can't do is destroy this community by tossing bombs of snark, flamebait, name-calling, etc., at the side you consider wrong and bad. That is something completely different, and is what we warn or ban accounts for doing. [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=%22always%20feels%22%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...

beerandt 6y ago

They literally took over the Senate building for hours during the scotus confirmation, snuck in restricted areas to harass senators, took selfies in offices while refusing to leave, and tried to block hallways and elevators, all with the stated intention of intimidating senators into changing their votes. Zero resistance from the Police and only arrested the people who still refused to leave hours later.

heurist 6y ago
Nevermind the ziptie handcuffs and tasers
- beerandt 6y ago
  Defensive tools for law abiding citizens unable to carry in a "gun-free" zone. It only show any sort of offensive ill intent to people who want it to show ill intent. Think it through logically: It proves adherence to the law, not intent to break it. Neither zipties or tasers are illegal, but in DC, concealed carry, or even having any personal gun is. If the intent was to forcibly take over the capital, or some sort of insurrection, it seems silly to worry about concealed carry laws while carrying out an open "rebellion". But even so, let's say you don't want to risk killing anyone with a gun. You still have a problem, because neither tasers nor zipties are an effective tool if you're going up against an armed federal police force and possibly hundreds of politicians and staffers. Tazers have maybe a few discharges without needing to be recharged. That's not gonna deter multiple people, let alone a crowd. Not even an individual for more than a few moments. Definitely not capital police officers with guns, who are trained to avoid and overcome being tazed, by actually being tazed. However, if you're a law abiding citizen protesting in DC, and you want to defend yourself against a potential attacker, a tazer is basically the only option you have. With the mayor's restrictions placed on the National Guard and police officers, it seems especially reasonable, given all the violence of the past year that police and politicians have failed to prevent, sometimes willingly. Since tazers only disable attackers temporarily, zipties make sense as a defensive tool, if you need to disable an attacker looking enough to get away, or between the time the tazer wears off and when the police arrive. Especially if you wind up in a situation where you are somehow confined in some space, trapped with your attacker. If people would at least try to perceive Wednesday with an open mind, it's easy to explain 99.9% as well intentioned citizens, peacefully marching. Even with the confrontations, it's easy to see how people could have unintentionally gotten caught up in an escalated situation. I get that not everyone was an innocent bystander. But, again, these people deserve the same benefit of the doubt that the left got when taking over the Senate building while admittedly trying to intimidate senators into changing their votes. Yet they were kneeled to in deference by the FBI, before being given unfettered access.